Talk:Bafour

Proto-Berbers

Just noting that when I added this, I did cite it, but I am having trouble with using the citation template in Firefox and sometimes it adds the cite not where my cursor is but at the beginning of the section(as can be seen in my edit). I've fixed this and am glad to see Tamsier found a second source. Dougweller (talk) 14:29, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Accuracy, pov

If you look, you will find various conflicting statements about the Bafour, eg "Il est généralement admis que le métissage des Bafour avec de nouveaux éléments venus soit de l'Est ou d'ailleurs a donné naissance aux Sereer, Sarakholé, Mandingue, Bambara, Toucouleur, Lebous", that they are of Jewish origin, etc. All of these plus the Neolithic stuff seem not just contradictory but arbitrary as what the various definitions have in common seems to be a lack of evidence. To assert anything as true about them is NPOV. Dougweller (talk) 15:53, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

And from The Western Saharans: Background to Conflict By Virginia McLean Thompson, Virginia Thompson, Richard Adloff[1]

"Bafour A people of unknown origin, believed to have occupied the Western Sahara prior to the second Almoravid conquest in the ninth century; possibly ancestors of the Imraguen."p 7 and "The Bafour. The vague term 'Bafour' has often been applied to any low-caste Mauritanian who is not Arab, Berber or negro. Victims of the Arab-Berber wars, they were forced either to submit or be dispersed over a huge area. The opprobrium with which the Bafour are regarded may be due to their being pagans, but probably it is because many Bafour belong to the despised and feared caste of blacksmiths {mellamin). There is a Moorish saying to the effect that the Bafour are not a tribe and have no fatherland. Dougweller (talk) 16:06, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

"The term Bafur is generic and is generally applied to the pre-Sanhadja inhabitants of the western Sahara. Various ethnic identities have been proposed for the Bafur. H.T. Norris (1972: 139 fn I), following Raymond Mauny, notes that Bafur (Bafour) is a vague and general term applied to pre-Sanhadja inhabitants of the western Sahara, part Berber, part Negro, part Semite.

The term Hajjiin referred broadly to the people living in the (eastern?) Adrar. designating a regional political affiliation. The Sanhadja and Bafur groups which made up the Haijiin continued to maintain their various group affiliations." [2] "The Evolution of the Idaw al-Hajj Commercial Diaspora" James L. A. Webb Cahiers d'études africaines Année 1995 Volume 35 Numéro 138-139 pp. 455-475 Dougweller (talk) 18:08, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

"Peul (pl. Fuulbe)"

I corrected this reference, replacing the French word Peul with an accepted English term, "Fula," and added a note. Fulɓe is indeed the plural form in Pulaar/Fulfulde, but the singular is actually Pullo. As for the French term for the people, it is said they borrowed it from Wolof. In any event the nomenclature revolves around the "ful-" root (and f/p consonant shift), in the first languages of the region and by extension English and French.--A12n (talk) 16:26, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. It's great to find anyone else taking an interest. From what I can find out, the only thing we know for certain about the Bafour is that we don't know anything about them for certain. Sources don't even agree as to whether they are still around or not. Dougweller (talk) 20:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. The nomenclature is a relatively small matter in any given article, but with this ethnic group and its language, the multiplicity of names and inconsistency of usage across many articles in Wikipedia leads to confusion.--A12n (talk) 18:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Identifying ethnic groups

Setting aside the mutability of ethnic identification in this region, how do we identify the Bafour? The sources reflect this problem as they simply don't agree. Some sources propose a prehistoric origin with no justification. There is only one way that we identify prehistoric cultures, and that is through archaeology. There are a number of archaeologically identified prehistoric cultures to which archaeologists have given arbitrary names. There are cultures such as the Celts who are both historic and prehistoric, and with those we can relate the archaeological evidence left by the historic culture to that of the prehistoric culture. But we can't do this with the Bafour without such evidence, and so far I haven't seen any. Dougweller (talk) 09:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

If you haven't tried already, you might want to ask about this on the H-Net list, H-Africa.--A12n (talk) 18:48, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 17:57, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Some sources

The Evolution of the Idaw al-Hajj Commercial Diaspora James L. A. Webb[3]

UNESCO General History of Africa, Vol. III, Abridged Edition: Africa from ... edited by M. El Fasi [4]

Desert Frontier: Ecological And Economic Change Along The Western Sahel ... By James L.A., Jr. Webb[5]

Ethnic Groups of Africa and the Middle East: An Encyclopedia: An Encyclopedia By John A. Shoup [6] Dougweller (talk) 13:22, 8 September 2012 (UTC)