Talk:Baked beans

two pounds a can?

Where on earth do baked beans cost two pounds a can? I live in the UK, and have never seen a price anywhere near that! Loganberry (Talk) 00:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I've just had a look round the internet and the most expensive ones anyone will sell me cost £1.50. I'll update the page to reflect this.--Cherry blossom tree 21:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The Reference about £1.86 beans refers to a 4 pack of heinz beans. The article appears to say that they cost £1.86 per can. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.103.30 (talk) 17:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

UK-centric

This article is far too UK based. Heinz for instance is an American company - but the article only talks about its British product. Rmhermen 20:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The article is not UK-Centric, it explains the history. However, I have been told by many people that Baked Beans/z are UK produced only and then they export them to the rest of the world. If this is the case and the article is UK-Centric then its got rigour and it would be acceptable to focus on the UK as a main theme for the topic involved. Maybe somebody could research the origins and producers of baked beans to make the article more academically sound?

Baked beans are UK centric, therefore one would expect the article to reflect this.

I agree, and I have removed the tag. The article is clearly categorized as British cuisine. The fact that Heinz is an American company is hardly relevant; it is well established in the UK. If someone thinks there is more to be said about the US (or any other) angle, please add it. --Shantavira 15:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Baked beans in cans are an American invention, to be fair, and baked beans are available in the USA - but the UK is the highest consumer of said beans in the world. Magic Pickle 19:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget about New England, which produces a distinct variety of baked beans and is a traditionally huge consumer of said beans. B&M Baked beans are the best example of these on the market (the beans are pea beans rather than navy beans, and they are slow cooked in brick ovens in the New England manner). Nobody in Boston would eat any bean but this type, and I've never known anybody who ate those awful Heinz beans regularly around here. Baked Beans are just as significant to the Boston area and New England as they are to the UK, if not more so, and thus the article is indeed UK-centric.

• C'mon, The UK is a whole country. As ace as Boston and New England are, they are only one state. Therefore the UK bias is fair, because Baked Beans are an integral part of UK mass culture. Baked Beans on toast is probably the first thing most British kids learn to make for themselves, meal-wise. Another point: The UK eat a lot of hamburgers, yet it would be wise to make the hamburger article US centric because of the cultural link to the country. Although Baked Beans in tins were not a UK invention, the whole population consumes them with gusto. One state may also love its beans - fair enough, but one country versus one state? The UK-centricity is fair. Magic Pickle 18:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• • Magic Pickle, New England is not "one state", its six states. New england is larger and more highly populated than Old England. It is MORE important. The UK bias is not, as you put it, "fair".

Would that be "more highly populated" in the sense that New England has a population of about 14 million and "Old" England has a population of around 51 million? I really need to brush up on my maths because I could have sworn that 51 was a considerably larger number than 14, I reckon 3.6 times larger using my clearly archaic mathematical skills.. --Pypex (talk) 05:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

speaking of new england baked beans, what about bean hole beans? growing up in main bean hole beans were huge at every large gathering, especially family reunions. they're cooked in a bean hole outside, i don't remember much more, i moved away from maine when i was 12 Iamnobody2 09:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

It should definitely show the way traditional Americans prepare baked beans if there is two pictures of how baked beans are prepared in UK. Maybe there needs to be separate pages for baked beans and how they are prepared in every single country since we can't create a neutral article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirt290 (talk • contribs) 01:15, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

history

What is the history of baked beans? Who "invented" tinned baked beans?--feline1 13:56, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Quite. I came here looking for information about who made the first canned baked beans and when, and found nothing. My understanding is that cans of beans were common amongst pioneers in the old West (of the US) and that this use probably predated widespread consumption of baked beans in Britain. But who knows.

I note also that canned baked beans are made in Australia and New Zealand and are popular there. Maybe they're popular in South Africa as well?

Not the the (presumably) mainly British contributors to this article show any sign of interest in anything much relating to beans outside the UK -- it's one of the most annoyingly parochial articles I've read on Wikipedia. Very disappointing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.92.58.112 (talk) 11:11, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

UK Centric

Yes, the article is too UK-centric.

The Heinz baked beans in tomato sauce you get in Canada (and presumably the US too - someone else will have to confirm this) is a different recipe to that you get in the UK, Ireland etc. (other brand baked beans available in the British Isles arebroadly similar to the Heinz recipe). It is sweeter, with fewer savoury flavours (spices, onion etc.). The difference is enough that a lifelong baked-bean lover such as myself will not buy the Canadian version, choosing instead to buy Amy's organic baked beans, or to eat home-made. I understand that homesick English-speaking Europeans from all over Greater Vancouver will visit the British shop in Steveston to get their fix of baked beans that aren't sickly sweet to their palates.

• Eh? Why would Europeans go to a UK store to get their fix of British beans? Are you confusing Greater Europe with UK here? Secondly, while I respect your discerning love of beans, your elite bean tastes perhaps alienate you from what the article is trying to achieve - a description of the mass-market foodstuff that is an integral part of UK culinary culture. I mean, you can buy pasties filled with baked beans in this country. We love it. Magic Pickle 18:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Erm. I don't agree with the unsigned complaint about over UK-centricity; on the other hand, Britons and Irish are English-speaking Europeans, are they not, MP? -- Picapica (talk) 15:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

In Canada you will find beans in tomato sauce displayed alongside beans with tomato sauce and pork (i.e. a tin of baked beans with a small lump of fat in it) and beans in maple syrup. I don't know whether or not it is the same in the U.S., or whether this is another Quebecois fast food that, like poutine, has spread to the rest of Canada.

One should also bear in mind the farting scene in Blazing Saddles. As far as I know (someone will need to do some research to prove me right or wrong), this is based on a historical fact, that canned beans were a common item in a U.S./Canadian cowboy diet, as were some other canned foods, such as tomatoes. (This would not have been true, incidentally, in Argentina, where the eating of food other than meat was regarded by the cowboys as a sign of homosexuality, and a lot of the cowboys therefore had rickets.) There was certainly a phase in U.S. cowboy culture when meals were prepared from dried beans on the chuckwagon. As I said, it is my belief that canned beans would have replaced dried beans as they became available, but someone will need to prove me right or wrong. It would be great if the person who does so could also ammend the chuckwagon article.

What I know of cowboy diet comes from having read Cowboys of the Americas by Richard W. Slatta a few years ago.

Ireneshusband 17:48, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, it needs to be less UK-focused. It would also be very nice if the article explained the differences between the various recipes, and didn't focus so heavily on canned beans (in my opinion, the canned product does no justice to the original). Boston-style beans (which are really the only kind commonly found in New England, as far as I know) would never contain tomatoes (the very thought would horrify most New Englanders), but would be based on either maple syrup or molasses (my mother usually uses molasses) and would always contain chunks of salt pork, but very few spices and no onions. The beans to be used are disputed: my mother uses soldier beans, or navies if she can't get soldiers (which are an heirloom variety), and would never use pea beans; but some others would swear by pea beans. By the way, some New Englanders (including myself) do find the Boston beans too sweet, and it is not uncommon for individuals to put vinegar on them at the table. -GSwift 07:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering if Gravče na tavče should be merged here. It's an old Macedonian dish that is basically Baked beans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tav%C4%8De_Grav%C4%8De Strjela —Preceding undated comment added 08:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC).

fart

Don't baked beans make you fart? I don't see that anywhere here. JayKeaton 09:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Most legumes have the problem of increased flatulence to some degree Nil Einne 15:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed

I removed the following from the traditional cuisine part

• Baked beans are also part of an Irish breakfast

According to the Irish breakfast article, baked beans are not part of the traditional Irish breakfast an indeed may be frowned upon due to their connection with the English. While baked beans may appear in some non-traditional Irish breakfasts I would suggest this is largely irrelevant as they also appear in many other breakfasts styles with British influence. In any case the above line clearly does not fit in to the description (Traditional cuisines of many regions claim such recipes as typical specialities, for example) Nil Einne 15:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• And why does the article mainly refer to Heinz baked beans? They are awful! HP baked beans are far nicer.

"In October 2005, Premier Foods Plc launched Branston Baked Beans. The marketing and promotion of this product was aimed squarely at challenging Heinz's dominance of the UK baked bean market. This marketing included an advert, featuring a Branston Bean Tin explaining how Branston Beans are very "saucy." Promotional activities included a 'Great British Bean Poll' where members of the public across the country were invited to blind taste both 'the brand leader' (assumed to be Heinz) and Branston. 76% of participants picked Branston over the brand leader. Heinz was subsequently obliged to re-evaluate its advertising strategy in the face of this aggressive activity, although in public Heinz spokespeople dismissed the challenge as a 'non-starter'."

This paragraph might belong better in a Heinz or Branston Baked Beans page and not in a general food article.

Last line

I think the last line (about the reason for bean price wars) is kind of useless. Surely it is obvious that the reason for the price wars was for each retailer to get people to shop in their store, not to encourage the eating of beans or any other related foods. That's what a price war is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.128.68.185 (talk) 18:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

UK focus

I understand that many consider the article to be UK-biased, but I don’t understand how it can’t be when the topic is so quintessentially British. Yes, there may be worldwide variations, indeed they are mentioned in the article, but as the largest consumer of beans in the world, I think we (the UK) ought to have the slight bias in this article (I know, I know, NPOV). After all, it is hard to find references to variations other than the British variety. On a side note, are the varities mentioned in the article actually called ‘baked beans’ or does it just happen so that they are prepared in that manner? British baked beans, as the article states, are not even baked, they are just called so. The long and short of it: the article deals with world variations (and I’m not denying that there isn’t room for expansion in this area), but ‘baked beans’, the majority of the time, refers to the British variety. Just do a Google search. My point is we shouldn’t tag the article as not dealing with a worldwide view for a fear of minorly violating the NPOV policy (for a topic such as this one). Use common sense, don’t eschew an article’s necessary bias for fear of the NPOV. As a result, I am removing the template. Rant over. Max Naylor 13:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I understand how this would look like a British article. For example the section discussing the regional variations, does not need to discuss the calorie content difference. To me it seems like a veiled attempt to say american tastes are more unhealthy than British ones, but maybe I'm just cynical. Simply stating they're sweeter and mushier in texture is good enough for me. Although I've left the extra info there, as I don't like to remove information from an article. (195.188.208.251 15:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

Actually, the article as it stands now does not mention that the UK leads the world in baked bean consumption. I'm guessing it was taken out as an unreferenced assertion, but if someone can find a good source it should definitely go back in. 81.158.1.156 (talk) 01:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Although I appreciate that baked beans are a staple in the UK, they are also a staple in much of the US, and are frequently referenced in pop culture. They are in no way considered a British import as other foods such as marmalade and fish 'n chips are. If I had not read this article I would have assumed that they are of an American origin. Perhaps there should be a separate article on British baked beans??? It seems that this article picks at the differences between British and American varieties, suggesting that one is better than the other (the "mushier" comment for example). I think this needs to be remedied. CelticLabyrinth (talk) 09:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I have some rather limited statistics for sales (in GBP) of Heinz Baked Beans by territory for 1988 (from The Top 10 Of Everything 1989 edition by Russel Ash ISBN 0-356-15983-3

1	United Kingdom	£105,000,000
2	Sweden	£610,000
3	Greece	£290,000
4	West Africa	£272,000
5	Spain	£250,000
6	NAAFI, West Germany	£213,000
7	Dubai	£141,000
8	Bahrain	£102,000
9	Kuwait	£78,000
10	Saudi Arabia	£77,000

While this does only give stats for a single manufacturer, and twenty years out of date stats at that, the orders of magnitude in difference between the UK and everyone else is certainly suggestive MrWeeble Talk Brit tv 02:07, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Heinz is known for making ketchup in my country, not baked beans ;) . These stats prove next to nothing given the fact that Heinz is not a leading producer of baked beans in all countries. This article is biased, for example it refers to US beans as "mushier", rather than using a more neutral descriptor like "softer". Parts of this article seem hyper focused on the UK beans v the US beans. CelticLabyrinth (talk) 23:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Mushy peas are a well known, dare I say beloved accompaniment to Fish and chips. What's that old saying "two countries divided by a common language". Some of the differences could come down to having more time to cook the beans and sugar being less expensive in the US, not only a savory over sweet preference. Whitebox (talk) 22:42, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Polish version of beans is not baked. It is cooked.

Why mention Heinz at all? This is an article about baked beans, not an advertisement.

I feel that mentioning Heinz is unnecessary in understanding what baked beans are. Their marketing research and advertisement slogans are irrelevant, and reek of commercialism. Also, if you look at the H.J Heinz company's wiki page, this so-called famous product of theirs isn't even mentioned! Does anyone have a good reason why NOT to delete this section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.80.30 (talk) 17:00, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

When in doubt, do something constructive. For example: add information about their competitors.Whitebox (talk) 22:53, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about Heinz's website, but Heinz for me are almost synonymous with baked beans here in the UK. I think most, if not all, supermarkets have their own brands but none has the exposure of Heinz. So I think it is right to mention them in the article. --bodnotbod (talk) 13:32, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Australia and New Zealand

I have enjoyed canned baked beans in Australian cafes, indeed 'metropolitan' cafes, and even the odd 4 star hotel. It's really not that unusual. I suspect that house made 'fresh' baked beans are the exception rather than the rule. This however would be speculation and original research. Consequently, I've added 'citation needed' tags. 60.240.207.146 (talk) 09:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Ditto, I wish the article was true, but the only baked beans I've ever been served at cafes in Australia are the canned variety. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.198.96.140 (talk) 13:01, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm Australian and have never known canned beans to be snubbed in eateries. I'd recommend removing the entire section as none of it is cited at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.33.242 (talk) 06:17, 27 February 2013 (UTC) I

I have never once in my 43 years of existence been served "non-canned" baked beans at an eating establishment. The entire paragraph is a fiction.

Agree 100%. Probably written by someone trying to make their cafe sound posher than it is. How do we go about deleting this rubbish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.99.33.59 (talk) 06:03, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

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Links

I think this page should link to the beans page given that baked beans are in fact beans TimPPreston (talk) 08:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

:D

I love that someone would write the history of beens on toast — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:6B0B:BD00:A986:D31B:2E33:1E25 (talk) 21:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

"...the greatest amount of canned baked beans is often part of an English full breakfast."

Does this read correctly for anyone? To me it sounds like two sentences got edited together, and something needs to be removed... Wikinetman (talk) 18:53, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. You can do that yourself, too! --Macrakis (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

US Centric

I am confused how a foodstuff that not one American I know (and I live in America) eats, that is only available as a British import managed to relegate it's cultural importance as classically working class British poverty food to a foot note in one section of an article about how the whole thing was clearly American.

Baffling. 23.118.51.142 (talk) 20:45, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Bush Brothers and Company sells about $400 million worth of baked beans in the the United States every year. Their cans are commonplace on grocery store shelves in California. I had some for dinner last night, and do not accept your premise. Cullen328 (talk) 21:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Lol. Baked beans are a classic American food which originated in the United States among Native peoples centuries before they came to the UK. The beans used in baked beans are indigenous to the United States and not the UK, and we do not import them. Colonists in New England adapted the native recipes with European cooking techniques and got the dish we know today. Americans began canning baked beans in the 1860s, more than 60 years before the first baked bean canning factory opened in the UK by Heinz in the 1920s. More importantly, Heinz is a Pennsylvania based company which has been exporting Heinz Baked Beans to the UK since 1886 when Americans introduced it to British consumers in the international foods section of the Fortnum & Mason department store. Before that nobody in the UK ate baked beans, and the food did not become a widely popular part of the English breakfast until World War I when canned goods became a more essential staple during food rationing. Bush Brothers and Company is the number one seller and producer of Baked Beans in the USA, and they are based in Tennessee.4meter4 (talk) 22:10, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I was going to mention Libby's brand baked beans (very common in Canada), until I discovered that Heinz bought that trademark decades ago. And no, I'm not user:4meter4, although we do have confusingly similar usernames. Meters (talk) 22:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Actually, there is a California based retail chain with about 250 stores called World Market (store). Among many other things, they sell a variety of British and Irish specialty foods, including Heinz baked beans made in the UK and Bachelors Irish Mushy Peas. Cullen328 (talk) 22:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

And as one could attest from the (in)famous campfire scene in the 1974 Blazing Saddles movie, baked beans have been a century-old American cowboy favorite for creating mirth at supper time. Zefr (talk) 23:35, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Not to mention, the city of Boston's nickname is "bean town" because of their close association with baked beans.4meter4 (talk) 00:52, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

I have to agree with the general tenor of this point. The article has evolved from being about a core British foodstuff to being about a marginal, regional American foodstuff, with the UK info relegated to an afterthought. There is a WP tendency for food and culinary articles to become dominated by American editors who assume that their regional understanding is globally applicable. --Ef80 (talk) 10:37, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Flatulence

Just curious—from a culinary/health perspective, it seems that oligosaccharides and other fermentable flatulence-causing compounds are best broken down by the extremely prolonged cooking time of beans, and my guess is this is why Native Americans were apt to cook them like this in the first place. The nursery rhyme about beans is certainly true, but especially as it applies to beans cooked for what is these days considered a ‘conventional’ time of up to only a couple hours. Why, then, is a nursery rhyme about flatulence included specifically in this article about an extremely thorough cooking method which results in expectably low levels of fermentable compounds? Why is this nursery rhyme reported to be particularly ‘about’ beans baked in this way? Seems contradictory and overly specific—that is, unless the author of that passage is claiming modernity’s canned baked beans are particularly flatulent and the rhyme is about them. But if that’s the case, it should be clarified, as the sentiment is pretty antithetical to the culinary science outlined elsewhere in the article as to why such an unusually long cook is beneficial to digestion. 199.16.255.253 (talk) 21:58, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Good catch. Wikipedia goes by reliable sources, and articles should not interpret sources to come to novel conclusions, as this is original research. In this case, it appears that none of the cited sources were specific to baked beans, just beans in general. I have removed the section. The reference to Beans, Beans, the Musical Fruit is a link in the 'see also' section, and is merely as a convenience to readers, so I have adjusted it and left it there. Grayfell (talk) 05:48, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

This article contains tropes

Many of the "facts" in this article are stated as such but are suppositions. Please refer to the book, The Truth About Baked Beans" by Meg Muckenhaupt. For example, there is no evidence Wampanoags sweetened their beans with maple syrup. None. The intentional romanticization of New England dishes that didn't exist until the Victorian era have permeated cookbooks and restaurants but are fictional folklore, much in the way that Washington Irving's history sketchbook made up traditions and histories that never existed before he dreamed them up. Barthnelson (talk) 13:03, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like a WP:FRINGE theory to me, and by an author that needs to read Decolonizing Methodologies and the ethics of research in studies of indigenous peoples. The Wampanoags have their own ancient oral legends and culinary traditions around maple syrup, and they themselves make the claims currently in the article which have been embraced in many reliable published sources.

One old Wampanoag legend involves their creator god Glooskap giving maple syrup as a gift. Likewise the Iroquois have a legend about Chief Woksis and maple syrup. The fact that indigenous cultures didn’t have written languages to record the past has often been used unethically by Western academics to unethically dismiss indigenous knowledge through oral tradition. We no longer accept that as ethical when operating from a Decoloniality framework, which is now the standard widely used in academic studies in anthropology and cultural studies internationally. A white researcher coming in and telling Native Americans how to view their own folklore, culinary tradition, and indigenous knowledge comes off as highly unethical. University websites continue to support the content as presented in this article. (for example https://umaine.edu/folklife/history-of-bean-hole-beans/ ).4meter4 (talk) 03:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)