Talk:Ballade (classical music)
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Proposed merge of Piano ballade into Ballade (classical music)
editI propose merging this article into the (currently unreferenced) Ballade (classical music) article, with the reason being that ballades are usually piano pieces. The content on these two pages overlap considerably. For reference, here is part of the Grove entry on the instrumental Ballade:[1]
A term applied to an instrumental (normally piano) piece in a narrative style. It was first used by Chopin [...] He composed four ballades, whose common features are compound metre (6/4 or 6/8) and a structure that is based on thematic metamorphosis governed not so much by formal musical procedures as by a programmatic or literary intention. Full of melodic beauty, harmonic richness and powerful climaxes, they are among his finest achievements. [...]
Franck’s Ballade op.9 (1844) and Liszt’s in D♭ (1845–8) and B minor (1853) follow Chopin’s in not being associated with particular literary sources. The earliest such association is in the first of Brahms’s Four Ballades op.10 (1854), which bears the heading ‘After the Scottish ballad “Edward” in Herder’s “Stimmen der Völker”’ (Herder’s translation of Edward had previously been set to music by Loewe and Schubert); but, as Mies suggested, Brahms may have originally planned it as a vocal work in strophic form and converted it into a piano piece while he composed it. [...]
Although instrumental ballades are usually for the piano, among those for other media are Vieuxtemps’ Ballade and Polonaise op.38 (c1860), for violin with orchestra or piano, Fauré’s Ballade op.19 (1881), for piano and orchestra, and several examples, both chamber and orchestral, by Frank Martin. Orchestral ballades (some designated ‘ballad’) have usually been inspired by literary sources, often well-known poems, for example Dukas’ L’apprenti sorcier (based on Goethe’s Der Zauberlehrling), Somervell’s Helen of Kirkconnell and MacCunn’s The Ship o’ the Fiend. With the orchestral ballade in particular, the distinction between the ballade and its related forms, the rhapsody and the symphonic poem, appears slight.
References
- ^ Brown, Maurice J.E. (2001). "Ballade (ii)". Grove Music Online (8th ed.). Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-1-56159-263-0.
- intforce (talk) 23:46, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
Support Both articles cover much of the same ground and Intforce makes a solid case for their merger. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Support per reasons above. Tfess up?or down? 15:55, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Support but Ballade (classical music) needs a better name. Medieval Ballades can be seen as a "Ballade (classical music)"—since Medieval music is apart of Western Classical music. Aza24 (talk) 09:49, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Support per previous comments. TheEmeraldBeyond (talk) 22:50, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 21:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
- I completed the merge, without prejudice to the question of the title. My view is that Ballade (classical music) is sufficient, and the hatnote to
Ballade (forme fixe), a medieval poetic and musical form
is sufficiently clear to readers that the current structure seems reasonable. Klbrain (talk) 21:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
- I completed the merge, without prejudice to the question of the title. My view is that Ballade (classical music) is sufficient, and the hatnote to
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