Talk:Baranavichy

On Polish names

I don't see any reason to use the Polish names here, because Baranovichi is simply not a Polish city. Poland held it for a period of time, but those times have gone long ago. That's equally silly, as if somebody tried to convert the Wikipedia article of Bialystok to Belostok, just because it once belonged to the Russian Empire. Voyevoda 23:29, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

With the exception that your blind revert crusade also tries to erase the mention of the facts that:

1. The town was built by Poles and under the Polish name
2. It was annexed in the effect of the Partitions of Poland
3. Polish Defensive War seems a much better name
4. 1939 was the first moment when the name of Baranovichi became anyhow official, even if we include the tsarist times
5. Also, you delete a perfectly valid external link and a wiki link.

May I ask what is the purpose of that? I understand you have some issues, but please explain them before you blind-revert. Halibutt 23:44, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Poles founded it? So what? Paris was founded not by the French and not under its modern name. Shall we change its Wikipedia article into its original name which is 2000 years old?

If you want to mention some historical aspects, nobody hinders you. But don't forget to mention that Poles founded this town on the occupied Rus territory where they never before formed a majority or had any right on it. They annexed this territory exploiting the weakness of Rus after Mongol invasion and brutally polonized it.

The names have to be written in the language of their actual possessor. Voyevoda August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Then why did Ghirla move it to the Russian name? Some case in Wikipedia:POINT? This needs to be immediately moved. Truthseeker 85.5 10:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus for move. Joelito (talk) 16:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Baranovichi → Baranavichy – As is clear from the first sentence, the city's name is Baranavichy, therefore the article name is misleading, as it is the Russian name for the city. It was moved under the dubious justification of it being its traditional name (by a person from Russia, without any discussion). --Original listing by Truthseeker 85.5, this discussion section added by SigPig 19:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Weak Oppose As an anglophone, I've heard of Baranovichi, and not of the others. This should have been the dominant English usage from 1945-1991, at least; prove it has changed. Septentrionalis 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• Strong support Imperial Russian usage made its way into the English language in the 19th century. See casus Mumbai. Truthseeker 85.5 02:13, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support. Baranovichi doesn't qualify as an English exonym. (It's intersting that there is no consensus on which language to use for Belarussian cities though.) -  AjaxSmack  05:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose: This search asks if I meant to search for "Baranovichi Belarus" which gives more than three times as many results. —Wknight94 (talk) 19:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

  Yes, but google isnt aware of the context and historical implications. Truthseeker 85.5 21:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

  Wikipedia's policies are based on verifiability, not context and historical implications. —Wknight94 (talk) 01:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose per Wknight94. By the way, it's more than four times.--Pan Gerwazy 07:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. It isn't an exonym in Russian, either. The spellign of the endonym may vary in Russian and Belarusian and Ukrainian, and it may vary in English from any of them. It always will vary from all of them, of course, since they use different alphabets, and the various transliteration schemes change over time and sometimes an older way of doing it gets established as the standard English version. There is consensus on which language to use—it's English. Gene Nygaard 10:51, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose per Pmanderson. What we look at is use in English, in the same way we're not moving "Germany" to "Deutchland". -- Grafikm ^(AutoGRAF) 13:16, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below, and per WP:COMMONNAME. -GTBacchus^(talk) 01:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

---

Baranovichi → Baranavichy — according to BGN/PCGN romanization of Belarusian mdash; original nominator unknown, discussion space added by SigPig |^{SEND - OVER} 19:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

• Comment: The original nominator was Unomano (diff.). -- Evv 18:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

Survey - in opposition to the move

1. Oppose. Baranovichi is more common on English sites, including Britannica, Columbia, and the Belarusian Embassy in Washington. Even Belarusian sites (.by domain) show a staggering preference for Baranovichi. --SigPig |^{SEND - OVER} 19:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
2. Oppose. Except in atlases (which tend to preserve local forms), English publications overwhelmingly use Baranovichi. - Evv 11:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

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The usual simple tests:

Google Print test

• Searching for Baranovichi: 279 books in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy: 3 books in English.

• Searching for Baranovichi Belarus: 35 books in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy Belarus: 3 books in English.

Google Scholar test

• Searching for Baranovichi: 101 results in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy: 4 results in English.

• Searching for Baranovichi Belarus: 57 results in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy Belarus: 4 results in English.

Amazon.com test

• Searching for Baranovichi: 144 books in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy: 46 books in English (almost all atlases and travel guides).

• Searching for Baranovichi Belarus: 12 books in English.
• Searching for Baranavichy Belarus: 10 books in English (o which 9 are atlases).

Best regards, Evv 11:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

History

Encyclopedia "Вялікае Княства Літоўскае", Volume 2 (ISBN 978-985-11-0394-8), page 330 says:

Мышскі езуіцкі калегіум

... Існаваў у в.Новая Мыш Новагародскага пав. (цяпер Баранавіцкі р-н) у 1667-93. Заснаваў кашталян новагародскі М.У. Юдыцкі, які запісаў калегіуму 105 тыс. злотых на маёнтках Баранавічы, Дамашэвічы, Старая Мыш, Сухарэльшчына, Чашэўля, Чэрніхава. Езуіты трымалі місіі ў Баранавічах і Чэрніхаве.

...

Jesuit collegium in Myš (Article by Valeryj Pazdniakoŭ)
... It existed in the village of Novaja Myš, Nowogródek county (now in Baranavičy Raion) in 1667-93. It was founded by M.Judycki, the Castellan of Nowogródek (Navahrudak), who granted 105,000 złoty to collegium within Baranavičy, Damaševičy, Staraja Myš, Sucharelščyna, Čašeŭla, Černichava estates. The Jesuits kept their missions in Baranavičy and Černichava. ...

There is also infomation about the mention of Baranavichy in the testament of Anną Eufrozyną Chodkiewicz, wife of Prokop Sieniawski. In 1626/27 she bequeathed Myš and neighbouring villages, including Baranavichy, to her son Adam Hieronim Sieniawski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sp kenny (talk • contribs) 15:44, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

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