Talk:Barangaroo

Untitled

Well, if a group of previously unknown people started taking your land, polluting your land and showing acts of brutality to their fellow men - flogging, hanging etc, wouldn't you have the same reaction? 203.206.231.123 12:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Not traditional lands?

The claim that the suburb was not in her "traditional lands" is misleading. She lived on the harbour (on Bennelong Point etc).--Jack Upland (talk) 09:19, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

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Uncited and undue claims

Some of the content on this page was brought to my attention by mainstream news reports who claimed this article had selectively quoted colonial accounts and was being touted by racists as an example of aboriginal "savagery". I've taken the time to read the only source cited and it is clear this selectivity included content is very WP:POINTy, to quote one of the worlds most respected mastheads "the Wikipedia page for Barangaroo, which selectively quotes an account of a first fleet sailor." and indeed this is clearly the case. I've removed the content as WP:UNDUE and not WP:RELIABLE, it's selective quotation is inaccurate and one can only assume it's inclusion was driven by racism. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 09:13, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm a bit concerned that when requested to take this to the talk page for further discussion that WP:STATUSQUO was not observed. I am also concerned that accusing editors out of hand of racism may start drifting towards WP:BADFAITH, lastly the section is quite clearly cited with a primary source, but could certainly do with a refactoring from secondary sources. With this in mind I would like to propose some constructive approaches towards this section of the topic as currently the article is resembling a stub. We have three primary sources currently (Collins, Dawes and Tench) which we should not rely on, along with Smith, Karskens' articles (Barangaroo, a woman worth remembering, Barangaroo and the Eora Fisherwomen) that largely overlap and `Barangaroo, a Cameragal woman of courage' (BCWOC). Collins virtually only discusses Barangaroo in terms of her funeral, and is discussed by Smith. Dawes makes a single passing reference to the wife of Bennelong with no real substance. This leaves Tench. Of the references to Barangaroo in Tench virtually all, are corroborated by one of the secondary sources listed above, with the notable exceptions of Chapter XIII and an incident involving Bennelong, Barangaroo and the daughter of another tribe. This could probably have been resolved with the addition of some more references and a refactor of the language rather than expunging the section. With that said I would like to put forward two different proposals for refactoring this article. The first and easiest is simply to restore the content and provide additional citations to and support from the secondary sources (When it comes to the biography of Barangaroo I could not find material disagreement between these secondary sources and the original Tench quotes, although each source has its own focuses, choice of language and context). The second and more laborious would be to remove the section entirely and attempt to provide an approximate chronology of events using Tench's ordering and supported by Karskens and BCWOC for earlier events and Smith for the discussion of her death and funeral. I will redraft the section and in the meantime would like to request comments, feedback and any further input. 129.78.56.236 (talk) 23:31, 21 August 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.78.56.236 (talk)

I support the reversion to the status quo, per WP:STATUSQUO and WP:BRD, and have done that. For the sake of completeness I've added citations to each paragraph, albeit all to the same primary source. Yes, some work needs to be done to that section, but there's no reason why the current text can't remain while we come up with something better. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Typically low standards applied to sourcing for claims about Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. It's selectively quoted original research, just bald faced racism. What a joke. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 20:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

The fact that a major masthead with a reputation for factual accuracy has pointed out that this article selectively quotes the primary source says a lot about the racist tone of this article. But I've come to expect this from wikipedia which has been widely criticised as such. Tambor de Tocino (talk) 20:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I've added some citations to secondary sources on some of the appropriate quotations which should in the longer run perhaps be replaced with rewording rather than direct quotations from the primary source, however the current structure of that section leans into it, which is understandable given the limited number of sources that attest to Barangaroo. I've also removed Trench's statements about the more general treatment of local indigenous women which are not attested to by those secondary sources, but retained the treatment of Barangaroo by Bennelong, which is. I'm not entirely sure what to do with the petticoat section as it seems both largely irrelevant and its interpretation appears to be disputed by some of the secondary sources, but given both that the section is about Tench, and there are few enough references to Barangaroo's life as it is I'm leaving it for now as I'm trying to avoid WP:BABY. 129.78.56.236 (talk) 01:05, 23 August 2023 (UTC)