Talk:Bathing

Animal bathing

To be neutral the article could include some information about how animals bathe (in the cases where they do) - for example sparrows, chickens etc are known to take dust baths. Richard001 06:56, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I often see small birds (blackbirds or thrushes) dipping themselves in and shaking off rainwater in puddles in my garden, and I have also seen them do this under running water emerging from a kitchen sink outflow. NRPanikker 15:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Bathing or showering for elder or handicapped

I removed this section since the entire text of the section was, "Access to the shower in the bathroom for people that uses wheelchairs". Unless someone actually wants to write a section on this topic, we don't want an empty section. --Xyzzyplugh 13:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Minoan Bathtub as the gateway to the underworld

The Bronze Age and later Iron Age Greeks believed the Underworld was entered by water, so large rectangular bathtubs, large enough to fully immerse the body, are often found in the graves of wealthy Minoans.

Bathing in a bathtub was a very ritualistically complex affair in ancient Greece. It involved heating water in huge copper cauldrons and then taking this boiling, scalding water and carefully mixing it with just the right amount of cold water to reach a comfortable temperature. Homer, in the 8th century bc, wrote about this complexity in his description of Circe's servants preparing a bath for Odysseus which underlines the ritual and formality,

'the fourth maid fetched water and lit up a great fire under the big cauldron so that the water grew warm. When the bright copper was boiling, she sat me down in a bath and washed me with water from the great cauldron mixed with cold to a comfortable heat, sluicing my head and my shoulders until all the painful weariness was gone from my limbs. My bath done, she rubbed me with olive oil, clothed me in a tunic and a splendid robe and conducted me to the hall, where she seated me in a beautiful chair with silver decorations and a footstool below.'

Slight Adjustment

After reviewing this article I felt that there was indeed a strong Western bias and so labeled the history section thusly. Will attempt to scrounge up facts to use in putting together an Asian History section to accompany it. - P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.87.3.128 (talk) 18:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Definition

"Bathing is the immersion of the body..." There are two kinds of bathing -- one that is carried in stagnant water and One that is in running water. In Indian tradition they are known are "Kunda Snan" and "Dhara Snan" Respectively. While taking only a shower (with no bathtub) you don't immerse your body.

I think immersion can be replaced with "washing"

Abhimanyu kar kgp (talk) 22:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Frequency compression or expansion.

There is a lot to add to the bathing frequency section, not to mention the controversy attached to it. Nations have a time-honoured habit of accusing each other of being dirty, like a pig. Yet, there are things that can be stated as objective facts.

During the medieval ages, european climate was significantly colder than today, yet water was often infected due to lack of sewage draining and treatment. Therefore people north of the Alps seldom bathed if ever, often only at the time of birth. At the middle of autumn, peasants would rub their skin in the fat of pigs for thermal insulation and literally sew themselves into a long sleeved linen overall, they would not remove until spring was well underway.

In contrast, orthodox christianity continued with the rich greek bathing tradition. When the 4th crusade got sidetracked to invade Constantinople rather than the Holy Land, the knights duly noted that all byzantians must be either gays or effeminated, based on the large many bathouses found within the city.

The ottaman turks were also bathing-addicts. For example they dig up all of Buda, the hungarian capital, as soon as they conquered it in 1541 and built a bath-house over each hot spring they found. They were lucky (or unlucky) to find almost two dozen in a 6km strip alongside the Danube and spent a better part of the circa 150 years of occupation doing balneology construction work in Buda.

In the Austrian imperial house of the Habsburgs, bathing was virtually unknown until the mid-19th century, due to their strong catholic stance with regards to the alleged link between bathing and auto-eroticism. The first ever tub in the Vienna castle was installed at the request of Sissy (Elizabeth von Posenhofen), a young bavarian pricess who became wife of emperor Franz Josef I in 1852. Yet, she was forced to fully cover her tub water with cork shards in order not to admire her own nude body indecently...

Even today, frequent bathing is not universal. Jewish people, while overwhelmingly wealthy, well educated and highly intelligent, seldom bath other than at the ritually prescribed occasions. Rather, they rub their body with a special oil that has fragrance in it. Some jews say a long history of desert-dwelling forced their nation to shun water-wasting bathes and they do not want to give up a such an important heritage, kept for several thousand years.

Furthermore, the french seldom bathe even today. Until the late 1950s, less than a quarter of french homes had a tub or even a shower stand tray, owing to the excessive price of tap water. There is a reason for their large perfume industry, since french men easily go a week without bathing and womenfolk for 3-5 days.

It appears some protestant nations, like the northern parts of Germany and the british, are generally on a tri-daily bath or shower schedule, due to moral strictness and the habit of saving money via discarding of unnecessary indulgences. Such restriction is also applied to their children, with anecdotal medical consequences. 87.97.54.87 (talk) 13:55, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

~Wow, has no one picked up on the obvious stereotypes and generalizations here -- most not based on fact whatsoever.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.62.127.90 (talk) 01:01, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Bathing in which particular location or time-period does this describe?

At the moment the Types of baths section includes the following: "Bathrooms usually have a tap, and a shower if it is a modern home, and a huge water heating pot. People take water from the tap or the water-heating pot into a large bucket and use a mug to pour water on themselves. A soap and loofah is used to clean the body after, and then rinsed again using the mug." It seems to describe bathing at a particular time or location, but does not make it clear. Does anyone know? The previous sentence refers to "bathing in western countries" but I have not come across the "huge water heating pot" in any western, or eastern, for that matter, country I have been to. FrankSier (talk) 18:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Mandi (bath) merging IN to Types of bath section

Starting merge. FrankSier (talk) 16:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Merge completed, I think. I have copied in the article as it was at the time of the end of the AfD discussion, and put in relevant Redirect and Tags, and done a tidy up.

There is still some material that was not in the Mandi (bath) article at the time of the end of the AFD discussion to be considered.

There is just one item I have not been able to work out what to do with: right at the end of the original article was fi:Mandi (huonekalu). As far as I can see it is a link to the Finnish Wikipedia (and huonekalu translates as furniture). Does anyone know what to do with this?

This is the first time I have done this process. I have read Wikipedia:Merging and Help:Merging#Performing_the_merger carefully, but I still might have made mistakes, so someone might like to check.

I will now remove the In use templates.

FrankSier (talk) 18:24, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

History section incomplete.

We should mention that the first types of baths were mostly used by rich people. The rich among the Ancient Egyptians forexample had their own baths, while the commoners used the Nile. The same was the case among the first baths appearing in most countries of the world.

And btw: One thing I find weird is how the article completely ignores China and the Middle East, especially considering that bathing was an important part of the cultures in those part of the world for centuries.

I am not qualified to write this, but if you need help I could provide the sources. PS. Sorry for my englih. --90.149.188.205 (talk) 15:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Problems and alternatives to bathing

Historically haven't some cultures where people have been crowded in cities or have owned farm animals have not bathed as much or bathed differently? For example, although some alternatives are gross, bathing in river water that is fouled by literal human shit is even more gross and didn't some people make do with what they had? I think this is also related to people drinking beer (which has alcohol) and tea (which is boiled). There should be some notes on this or links to a separate article about this.

SStewartGallus (talk) 21:06, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

People against bathing

There have been numerous people, and even cultures throughout history, that have believed that bathing is unhealthy and un-natural (besides occasionally jumping into some water, and often not even that). I know of a few of them personally; the believe the natural oils etc on the skin are there for a reason, and that washing them off is unhealthy. Given that it's not universally acknowledged that bathing is healthy or necessary, I don't think it should be insinuated that it's a fact that bathing is healthy and good for you; most people do and have believed that it's a positive and beneficial thing, but Wikipedia should avoid making it seem as if its stating it as a fact. "Evidence indicates that" is not the same thing as being an irrefutable fact, and in fact, the most extreme case of this I know is a man who died three years ago at age 98, my neighbor when I was growing up. He claimed he had last bathed in 1925 (or thereabouts, I forget exactly), and he lived alone and was tough and took care of himself right up until the day he died. A very popular man in the region, well known for being generous and kind to everyone, only he had quite a strong smell (obviously). Maybe his age, ability and policy of never bathing are not actually related, but he believed they were (or I suspect he did), and he's not the only one with these beliefs. AnnaGoFast (talk) 20:58, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Everyone has opinions Cwater1 (talk) 17:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Do only women bathe?

Just discovered this article and was drawn to the illustrations, almost all of which show women bathing. Is this imbalance due to a deliberate choice of those who added the artwork, or a bias in the available material? HiLo48 (talk) 00:00, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Bath, Somerset

There are articles on Bath, Somerset and Roman Baths (Bath), but no mention here. This should be remedied given the hot springs being in use for many centuries. Are there any preferences as to where such content should be placed? WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:14, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

This is an article about the act of bathing. It’s not clear to me that every place with a prominent bath or an association with bathing needs a mention, but maybe I'm missing your point? — HTGS (talk) 06:20, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

A better place to discuss these might be Public bathing#British Empire, or its linked article, Baths and wash houses in Britain — HTGS (talk) 06:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I am not suggesting a list of places, but a natural hot spring that has been used for the entire Christian era, in a city called Bath, certainly deserve at least a "See also" link.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 11:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Isn’t it inevitable that such an addition would be merited for numerous places around the globe? I really don’t see that your suggested addition is necessary, but I suppose it wouldn’t be harmful if you really want to add it. — HTGS (talk) 20:38, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Maybe make an article regarding places where one can bathe Cwater1 (talk) 17:04, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Bathing in different media

Most of this article deals with bathing in the medium of water. There are, of course, other media, for example, milk and mud (and probably sauna). This is well noted in the sub-section headed 'Hot-air baths' which is notionally, though not structurally, divided into 'Hammam' and 'Victorian Turkish baths'. This is followed, it seems to me quite illogically, by a sub-section on soap. I have, therefore, tentatively, moved the piece on soap immediately after the water baths. This has allowed a move of 'Hot-air baths' up a level, and so enabling it to be subdivided into its (at present) two subdivisions, each with its own Main article link. I hope this doesn't upset too many people, and there is no immediate rush to revert!Ishpoloni (talk) 11:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

This is another attempt to emphasize that this article is currently titled "Bathing", a general subject, not "Water bathing in the Western World". But, with this, I rest my case, and the decision is yours.

My personal preference, in an article written for a neutrally oriented encyclopaedia such as Wikipedia, is for a general article to be less Euro-centric and more diverse, which is why I have added to the lead other elements which already mentioned within it. And, of course, as a general article it needs further extension and, especially in the early parts, more evidential sources.

If it is not to be a general article, then—as correctly retitled "Water bathing"—it would be one of a number of articles on different types of bathing, and the whole section on hot-air bathing could, and probably should, be removed, especially as it comprises the two main types which already have major articles.

I have tried to be consistent in my use of inverted commas, parentheses, etc, but may have missed some.

Saki Mud baths

Incidentally, without knowing who uploaded the images of bathing in the park and in space, I have to say that while the second one exemplifies my wish to extend the coverage of the article, the first seems fairly irrelevant to the content as it stands. Far more appropriate (to the existing mention of therapeutic bathing) would be the wonderful image in Commons of the Saki mud bath in Crimea.

There is so much inconsistency and difference of approach in the many existing articles on different types of bathing that I suspect that what is really needed is a Bathing Project to try to arrive at a consistent approach. However, I am not knowledgeable enough about the subject as a whole, or about the mysterious workings of Wikipedia, to attempt this myself. But I would fully support it. Ishpoloni (talk) 10:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I cannot figure out why hot air bathing is so important that you insist that it be mentioned in the first sentence? In most of the cultures I’m familiar with, the vast majority of bathing is done with water. We should treat each subject of this article with its due emphasis, and with that in mind, bathing in water is not the only permissible subject, but it is the subject most central to this article. — HTGS (talk) 12:40, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Simply because the article is titled 'bathing' and not 'water bathing'. You might as well have an article on transport and miss out hovercraft because fewer people used them. One of the disadvantages of having been a professional classifier is looking at things from a neutral point of view. However, I have no vested interest in this article and I appear to be in a minority. So be it. Ishpoloni (talk) 12:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I love that, “professional classifier” haha. I could see myself really enjoying library work with that kind of job description.

It’s really just us two who seem invested in the question at this point; it’s not exactly a major subject of interest. From my point of view, the article on transport should not include hovercraft in the first sentence either. What I’m going for in the first sentence, and the first paragraph, is the core idea and the most important things to understand about bathing, not a complete definition. Remember, we are building an encyclopaedia, not a dictionary.

Again, I am not suggesting we remove mention of hot air baths from the article, nor even from the lead, but in order to get the idea across quickly, we have to focus the reader on the central part of the topic. Saying that “bathing happens in a media” is confusing for many readers less read than we are, and is less clear to a reader than saying that bathing usually happens in water. The word “usually” clearly communicates that it is not always in water, and that other mediums are valid too. — HTGS (talk) 00:32, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi HYGS, Yes I think I was over-egging the "professional classifier" bit a little. But as a librarian in a single library and later as head of a library system I was very much involved in classification and was also, in the 1970s, a member of an international cataloguing committee where people would often come to grief over whether a comma or a semicolon should be used. However the cataloguing rules were easier to understand than the Wiki guidance notes with all their diversionary links.

Back to the issue at hand. As I said before, I'm happy to leave the decision to you. I think what was worrying me is that when you say that "bathing usually happens in water," it only makes sense in a western or so-called "developed" part of the world. If, however, the article was about "Washing" rather than "Bathing" then I would have no difference of opinion with you at all. And in fact, the article is actually about Washing (oneself) and not about bathing—apart from the few lines on wash-houses, the aforementioned hot air baths, and the section on therapeutic bathing (which should probably have a Main to Hydrotherapy. Best wishes, Ishpoloni (talk) 09:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)