Talk:Battle of Bornhöved (1813)

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According to my sources, both parties regarded the outcome of the battle as a victory. So if this article concludes that it ended with the Swedes winning, I guess the author is a bit biased in following the Swedish version. Danskebjerge (talk) 18:17, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

conflicting sources of this battle

Hey so I’ve now read two accounts of this battle, this Wikipedia one and one on “oocities.” These two depictions tell 2 completely different stories.

Oocities depicts the battle as the Danes are retreating and took haven in Bornhöved to regroup and rest. As they had dug in, Swedish cavalry began to attack the town and fierce fighting began to erupt in around Bornhöved. As Danish units began to withdraw, the Swedes chased some Danish cavalry and 17th Lithuanian Uhlans towards Prince Frederick’s and General L´Allemand‘s head quarters but cannons from one of the still stationed artillery batteries and some Holstenske units (not sure if it was sharp shooters or infantry) poured hell into the Swedes. The Swedish cavalry retreated back into the town but came under fire from a battalion of the 3rd Jyske Infanteriregiment who were still holding the cemetery fortifications (the Swedes had attacked 3 Jyske as they tried to leave earlier but the Danes counter attacked the mounted cavalry). As the Swedes were forced from the town, some Holstenske sharp shooters opened fire on them as they retreaded. The Swedes fell back off their attack and the Danes withdrew from the town, setting the stage for the Battle of Sehested. The Swedes had disorganized the Danish units but oocities says that the Danes suffered 11 dead and 45 wounded and 75 down were taken prisoners and the Swedes had lost 80 dead and wounded and had 128 dead horses. This is all on account of oocities (here’s the link: https://www.oocities.org/pentagon/2083/bornhove.htm ).

This wikis article seems to portray that the Danes were decisively defeated and this specific battle was a major contribution to Norwegian succession to Sweden. Although the course and outcome of the battle can be debated, the Battle of Bornhöved is not a factor of the Treaty of Kiel, lol.

I’m not saying that this Wikipedia is wrong, but it’s lack of sources and the fact that the oocities document has been regarded as an extremely accurate source leaves room for debate. I would love if you could possibly drop some extra sources about the battle and maybe we can make this article even better! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Monsieur Frags (talk • contribs) 16:55, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

This current Wikipedia article doesn't quite tell the story of the Swedish description either. According to Skjöldebrand's (the one in command of the Swedish force) detailed After Action Report - written on 10 December 1813 - it goes (in short): The Swedes, with a total force of about 900 cavalry, attacked the Danish rearguard just outside Bornhöft, consisting of 2,000–3,000 infantry, 1,000 cavalry, and 7 guns; the initial attack with about 500 hussars succeeded, as the Danes withdrew through the town (or village?) while being fiercely pursued by the Swedish hussars. In this initial encounter, two Danish battalions had also thrown down their weapons to surrender - however, as the majority of the Swedish hussars went after the fleeing Danes, these were soon able to rejoin the fight (I suppose these are the same sharpshooters who later caused the Swedish hussars damage, as they withdrew). The Swedish hussars, still pursuing the Danes through the town, slashed onto anyone they could get over, until they saw themselves facing the bulk of the Danish force, deployed on the other side of the town.

At this time, Skjöldebrand recalled his hussar squadrons since he feared a general Danish counterattack, which could've been devastating to his troops who had become quite scattered during the pursuit; the Swedes withdrew back from where they came, to redeploy outside the town, during which they received flanking fire from the two battalions which had earlier surrendered but now rejoined the fight. After some casualties, a squadron of Carabiniers were sent against the Danish sharpshooters, who sought the cover of the trenches and hedgerows to avoid the Swedish cavalry, thus putting a stop to their fire. After a while, as the rest of the Swedish force of 900 arrived, a few Swedish squadrons once again went into the town, which they found abandoned - by this time, the last dispersed Danish battalions had already withdrawn, to join up with the main army. The Swedes had suffered 23 men killed and 57 wounded from 7 December (the day of the battle) until December 10 (the day the AAR was written), in addition, 128 horses had also been lost. During the battle and the three following days, up to 600 enemies had been captured - many of whom had been dispersed during the battle and was later captured by the Swedes - and 8 guns (at least 3 of these had been captured during the battle itself).

I don't know exactly what the Danish report of only 11 men killed, 45 wounded and 75 captured, is based on? I've been trying to find the source for it for quite some time, without success (I suspect it's Frederik's own report, but how would he know the amount of captured?); to me, this seems to be a report based of confirmed casualties at hand (wounded Danish soldiers who made it to the main army, bringing with them some of the killed comrades), right after the battle - meaning 'missing' Danish troops, of which there were a lot as a consequence of the battle, are not included. If this is the case, the Danish losses would obviously be a lot higher, seeing as missing troops are potentially killed or captured - although, without the source of this report, it's quite unnecessary for me to speculate. I believe another Danish source mentions 200 Danish losses however, killed or captured.

So what do we know? The Swedish objective was solely to harass the retreating Danish force; in this, they managed to shatter the Danish rearguard, but were, for obvious reasons, unable to keep the momentum against the Danish main force. While dispersed Danish units temporarily reoccupied Bornhöft after the Swedish hussars had withdrawn, they soon withdrew towards the main Danish force, allowing fresh Swedish squadrons to secure the town. In terms of man-losses, the Danes had suffered, from what we know, at least 130 men, but potentially more (certainly more if accounting for the pursuit during the three following days), the Swedes 80. Furthermore, 3 Danish guns had been lost during the battle, while a continued Danish retreat was inevitable. Strategically, you're probably right in that the battle had no effect on the outcome of the war, but personally I don't see how this could be regarded a Danish victory - just my take on it, of course. Imonoz (talk) 02:09, 8 October 2021 (UTC)