Talk:Battle of Fardykambos/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Gog the Mild (talk · contribs) 19:34, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Criteria

Good Article Status - Review Criteria

Further information: WP:WIAGA

A good article is—

1. Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and

(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

2. Verifiable with no original research:

(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);

(c) it contains no original research; and

(d) it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.

3. Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Review

1. Well-written:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (prose)		Pass
(b) (MoS)		Pass

2. Verifiable with no original research:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (references)		Pass
(b) (citations to reliable sources)		Pass
(c) (original research)		Pass
(d) (copyvio and plagiarism)		Pass

3. Broad in its coverage:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (major aspects)		Pass
(b) (focused)		Pass

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Notes	Result
	Pass

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Notes	Result
	Pass

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales)		Pass
(b) (appropriate use with suitable captions)		Pass

Result

Result	Notes
Pass	A fine, detailed, well written article. A worthy Good Article which has potential to go further. Well done Cplakidas. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:55, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

Please add any related discussion here. Images.

• Is it possible to insert a vaguely appropriate image or two? Even if as unrelated as File:ELAS monument Galatsi.jpg.
• Is there a reason the usual flags are missing from the infobox? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:50, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Prose.

• "Grevena was abandoned for good, and became the first town to be liberated from Axis occupation in Europe." Can you provide a source, bearing in mind all of those liberated Russian towns, or possibly you could change "Europe" to Greece?
• The article starts a little abruptly: "On 29 January 1943...". Could the reader be eased in a little more gently? If only with "It was WW2. Greece was occupied by the Italians. Armed resistance had been growing." Or similar.
• "... entered the Macedonian town of Siatista, and attacked the..." Macedonia is ambiguous these days. How about "entered the Macedonian town of Siatista in north-west Greece, and attacked the" or similar?

Hi, I've added a photo of ELAS guerrillas, and am looking for a good and suitable photo for Italian troops. Commons has a lot, but it is difficult do find one that is chronologically and thematically appropriate (Italian soldiers in Greece, ca. 1942/43). On the flags, there is simply no need for them, per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG: the Italians are a single faction, while the Greek factions all used the same flag (the Greek flag), so there is little point to use flags for distinguishing any of them, and they become simple decoration. On Grevena, I admit this gave me some pause for thought myself. However, given the perspective of the author (Eudes, writing in the early 70s), I think that with "German-occupied Europe" he means the occupied countries, ipso facto excluding the Soviet Union (frequently excluded from the definition of Europe in colloquial and/or political writing) and any active battlefield where the front might fluctuate. Otherwise, if we take this as it stands, AFAIK the Greeks were the first to "liberate" any town from Axis occupation in Europe when they occupied Korçë in November 1940, during the Greco-Italian War. I've rephrased this, but it is somewhat of an interpretation matter, and am open to suggestions as to how to treat it properly. On the Macedonian part, unfortunately you are correct. Your suggestion works for me, and has been adopted. Constantine ✍ 09:26, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi back. It is looking good. A couple of issues still outstanding above and a couple more below.

• "The battle comprised two different, but continuous engagements". I am not sure what "continuous" means here. If I was I might suggest an alternative. Whatever, it probably needs a comma after it.
  • Explained it a bit better. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "The partisans were armed with shotguns and antiquated Gras rifles, axes, and damascened knives". Do you mean damascened or damascened? (I assume the former.) In either case could you Wikilink it? It is may not be a familiar term to a reader.
  • Good point, actually I am fairly sure the latter is meant. Damascus steel was never widely used in the Balkans, while the decoration of knives and other weapons has a long history and is still part of folklore tradition. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "only the tenth and last car managed to turn around and escape." Would this be better as something like "only the last car, the tenth,..."? Currently it reads as if two cars escaped, which I assume was not the case.
  • Hmmm, "the tenth and last car" is not the same as the "the tenth and the last car[s]", I think. Have rephrased, however, to be sure. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "some even participated in right-wing organizations such as EKA". "participated in" rings a little odd; "some were even members of..."? (Just a suggestion.)
  • Hah, a Greekism creeping in there. Changed. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "Around noon, the Italians regrouped at a site near the road crossing of the Kozani-Grevena-Kastoria road". The "road crossing of the... road." Reads a little oddly.
  • Removed the first "road", evident from the context. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "reaching the outskirts of the lower town of Siatista". Would I be correct in assuming that you mean "lower-lying"?
  • yes and no: Siatista is pretty elongated, as it lies in a valley, and has an upper and lower town. Of course the lower town is "lower-lying", but it is meant here as a toponym rather than a geographic description. Constantine ✍ 13:18, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "the partisans took 17 officers and 432 other ranks prisoner, in addition to inflicting 45 wounded and 20 dead." You say "in addition"; are the 45 wounded included in the 432 captured?
• "if any Italian airplane or military unit approached Siatista. Nevertheless, a few days later an Italian airplane appeared, and dropped a bomb which fell harmlessly outside the city." In the lead Siatista is referred to as a village. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:29, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Nudge re comments above. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I had completely missed them. Will start addressing them right away. Constantine ✍ 17:37, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Don't rush on my account. I can see that you have a lot on. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:47, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

That is looking really good. An excellent photo of the Italians. Consolidating outstanding queries and suggestions.

• The article starts a little abruptly: "On 29 January 1943...". Could the reader be eased in a little more gently? If only with "It was WW2. Greece was occupied by the Italians. Armed resistance had been growing." Or similar.
  • Added a paragraph on that, summarizing large parts of Mazower's book (which I recommend if you are ever interested in the subject). Constantine ✍ 17:34, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "the lower town of Siatista". We have village names like that around here. How about "the lower-town area of Siatista"? Which is how I would use it to describe, say, lower-Belper, near where I live.
  • Hmmm, "lower-town" looks weird. AFAIK this is a correct and current term in English; I don't really see a reason for changing it, TBH. Constantine ✍ 17:34, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "the partisans took 17 officers and 432 other ranks prisoner, in addition to inflicting 45 wounded and 20 dead." You say "in addition"; are the 45 wounded included in the 432 captured?
  • Clarified. Constantine ✍ 17:40, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
• "if any Italian airplane or military unit approached Siatista. Nevertheless, a few days later an Italian airplane appeared, and dropped a bomb which fell harmlessly outside the city." In the lead Siatista is referred to as a village. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
  • With over 4,500 inhabitants in 1940, Siatista was definitely a town. Corrected. Constantine ✍ 17:34, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

• Lower-town certainly isn't a deal breaker. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:55, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks a lot Gog the Mild for your time, effort, and patience, which have helped improve the article. Best regards, Constantine ✍ 18:35, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Thank you. Always a pleasure to work with you. And thanks for bearing with me while I went all picky. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:43, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate a thorough review far more than a wave-through, so no worries there. Likewise a pleasure working with you :) Constantine ✍ 18:44, 7 May 2018 (UTC)