Talk:Battle of Glođane/Archive 1

Archive 1

KLA Victory?

Almost 87% of these battles are labeled KLA Victory, but there are no refs. So I erased the result, therefore, I find this unreliable Vladov (talk) 03:51, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

References

Reference [1] says nothing from a battle, just from "34 bodies found in a Lake" on this date

Reference [2] say, the battle was on 11th and 12 Aug and the Article is from 13th Aug - nowhere I see a relation to something, happend on 9th of September Date

Reference [3] is in a language I cannot read, I cannot learn a new language for reading an Wikipedia-Article

the same is for Reference [4]

Reference [5] is not to read for normal people if they are not logged in or so at Google Books

so what? -- Hartmann Schedel ^cheers 21:52, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Serb / Yugoslav

Same question. Country was formed as independant in 2006, this happened years before that. Serbian paramilitary, serb people, but Yugoslav police and army. We should follow our wikipedia guidelines and agreements about articles, and not sources as blind. Thats why we will not write that Kosovo is legitimate independant country if someone say so. We have here agreements about Kosovo status, same as for this. I cannot agree on this link. Serbian Police That is awful, as you may see unit was formed in 2006, but participated in actions in 1998? No, of course. You may create relevant articles about it, but current article about Serbian police is not that one. --WhiteWriter^speaks 23:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

No that isn't right. The MUP was the Serbian Ministry of Interior. It had its own troops and units most notably the PJP/SAJ/JSO. Because these units were heavily armed and engaged in military combat they are refered to by some scholars as para-military. i.e. military-esque. The MUP was an organ of the Serbian state which was itself within the Yugoslav federation. Yugoslav elected officials had no control over the MUP. Elected Serbian officials did. So its Serb paramilitary, serb people. Yugoslav Army, Serb police. Its similar to the U.S. federal government and state police. The state police of Illinois report (ultimately) to the Governor of Illinois not the President. You would say Illinois police officers and U.S. army troops.Epeos (talk) 23:54, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Discussion about this is here. Lets not FORK it... --WhiteWriter^speaks 16:31, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Sources typically say Serb. For instance: [1]. We should follow what independent sources say. It is unfortunate that your political stance is so often incompatible with what independent sources say. bobrayner (talk) 23:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The 'sources' use mere simplifications that lack technicalities, our task here is to be precise. Any arbitrary reference to plain "forces" can only be attributed to the state and not the intermediate entity. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 04:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Still, as this is an encyclopedia that relies on sources and not your evaluation and interpretation, I'll stick to the sources.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:40, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

There is no "my evaluation", there are the facts, and those that try to argue against them. The FRY was unofficially referred to as "Serbia" by various bodies, period. Naturally if certain editors wish to go out and find sources that Serbia was not part of Yugoslavia at the time in question, or that it was a rogue entity operating against central instruction, then that is fine, because I too stick to sources. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 20:55, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Stick to the sources please, you've been here long enough. They all say "Serb". Yugoslavia disbanded 1991. Thankyou. Kosovo 2008 Albania 1912 (talk) 13:15, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

1992, and you are confusing Federal Republic of Yugoslavia with SFR Yugoslavia. Something everybody conveniently overlooks these days. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 16:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry then shall we change every reference of KLA attacks on serb civilians to KLA attacks on Yugoslav civilians??? And every attack by Serb military and police forces on Albanian civilians as Yugoslav attacks on Yugoslav civilians?? The sources say Serb military and Serb police. I don't understand the problem with repeating them here. The SFR Yugoslavia consisted of ONLY Serbia and tiny Montenegro. During the Kosovo war, Montenegro refused to assist the Serbian war effort and refused to send troops to Kosovo. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1998/aug/12/warcrimes.jonathansteele. The troops on the ground were Serbian. Your interpretation of the "facts" is wildly skewed to muddy the water of Serbian responsibility for these actions.93.73.110.80 (talk) 10:34, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Point one - regardless of Montenegro's size in relation to Serbia, Montenegro did not have its own army, there was one military and its name was Vojska Jugoslavije (Army of Yugoslavia). When in 1991 the Slovenes fought the ten-day war for independence, their opponent was the YPA (Yugoslav People's Army) regardless that by this time Croatia and Slovenia had both withdrawn their forces and it is not known to what minor degree Macedonians and persons from Bosnia were involved. There was no such thing as the Serbian army until 2006. Point two - it was Đukanović (not Montenegro on the whole) that refused to assist the national forces. If the Montenegrin president had enough influence to prevent persons from his entity assisting the national army then perhaps you can explain how the "landlocked Serbian navy" came to engage in the NATO camaign. Be that as it may, it still would not render the extant force, "Serbian army". Furthermore, no source even claims this to be so. The term "Serbia" was long used as a substitute for Yugoslavia in media for reasons of simplicity. Point three - the majority of non-Albanians in Kosovo are indeed Serb but most reputable sources would use the term, "Serbs and other non-Albanians" which allows for KLA attacks on Ashkali, Bosniaks, Roma, Turks, Croats, and for what it is worth, Montenegrins as they are found on the west (Metohija). Point four - the police may remain "Serbian" and "Montenegrin" as they had their own divisions according to the FRY constitution. Just note however that they did not have separate "special police" networks, there was only one which comprised proportionate elements from both entities and answered to the central government. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 15:01, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

BBC

Source quote: Glodjane was "one of the strongest bases" of Albanian forces, the Yugoslav state news agency Tanjug reported. It said five policemen and two members of the Yugoslav Army had lost their lives, and more than 10 police officers had been wounded in the two days of fighting.

What part of "Yugoslav army" don't some editors understand? --109.93.173.14 (talk) 18:33, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Anonimski and the problem of undiscussed moves

Please stop making undiscussed moves. You may well believe that you know the name better than the sources do, but if a move might be contested, you're supposed to use WP:RM instead of move-warring. Please stop. bobrayner (talk) 22:43, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

@Joy:, @Antidiskriminator:, since you both know the language, what do you think of the đ/dj orthographic issue? Would this, as Bobrayner says, be grounds for WP:RM or can it be seen as a technical move? - Anonimski (talk) 23:02, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

@Bobrayner: The name of the town is shown on Google maps as "Glođane" (together with the Albanian "Gllogjan", which also is official due to the bilingual status of Kosovo). Entering "Glodjane" makes the search fail, and "Glođane" is shown in the autocorrect menu. - Anonimski (talk) 23:11, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

The article's sources - talking about the battle, rather than the town - prefer "Glodjane". This is why I undid your undiscussed move of this article, but I didn't change the article about the town. Movewarring is a bad idea; this is why we have WP:RM. bobrayner (talk) 23:33, 21 January 2015 (UTC)