Talk:Battle of Vuhledar

The battle has begun

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023, Russian forces officially launched an offensive against the strategically important city of Vuhledar. There is no longer any doubt about that. I expect other users to join in the aesthetic improvement of the article. It would make my job easier. – Baba Mica (talk) 20:40, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Casualties and losses inaccurate

Not sure what the appropriate protocol is for casualty and loss figures, but what's listed is very outdated for a battle which has accelerated in the past couple weeks. Additionally, it's not an accurate reflection of the source, and the source isn't a Ukrainian claim, but rather the limited claims of interviewed individuals on the ground. Should maybe be removed or replaced for the time being. Just-a-can-of-beans (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Vuhledar is current a grey area, which is difficult to determine the losses of personal. Even exact losses of armoured vehicles are difficult to determine solely relying on drone footages. I believe we should continue to use these inaccurate sources for the time being Amnop1234 (talk) 13:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Battle of Pavlivka. Separate page or merge with Battle of Vuhledar?

So I noticed that the Battle of Pavlivka was merged with the Battle of Pavlivka. Should it stay as such or should it be separated. I think it should be separated because the Battle of Pavlivka happened much earlier before Vuhledar, and there appeared to be a pause by Russian forces after capturing Pavlivka and before the commencement of the Battle of Vuhledar 209.147.97.30 (talk) 19:35, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I understand, but discussions had taken place between January and March, which had been decided to merge the page.

The main reason is that the battle of pavlivka was actually meant to take Vuhledar (but failed miserably due to the incompetence of the RuAF)

Secondly, RuAF also attacked Mykilske at the same time, which they were able to capture and attack the area around Vuhledar (and also tried to flank Pavlivka but also failed miserably)

Third, there are still constant fighting after the capturing of Pavlivka (such as TOS shelling Vuhledar)

It would be reasonable to split the two pages before January, but it's better to merge the two pages now. Amnop1234 (talk) 14:50, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Operational-strategic significance: Expansion?

I feel we need to find more RS discussing the operational-strategic context. Because right now it's very unclear what the battle is/was actually about.

You might say that in fact that's the case. I would personally disagree since I recently noticed that the place is key to fire control of the T0509 highway, which if achieved, would open a third major GLOC as far as Velyka Novosilka, which would obviously have been a big deal.

However, I haven't found RS to support this. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Usually we'd look at ISW (😏), but the overall focus of the Ukraine team there has gradually moved away from operational-level military strategy as the war has progressed. I've read almost every daily report, and I've seen no mention of that, despite major coverage of GLOCs in the context of the Kherson and Kharkiv counteroffensives.

Obviously Telegram is not really a good enough source. The best bet might be random news articles. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 03:19, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

BINGO! https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-russia-battle-vuhledar/32276547.html

Will process/add it tomorrow, unless someone beats me to it. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 06:32, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Confirmation on clashes around the City of Vuhledar in late 2024

Ping @Flemmish Nietzsche, Ping @RadioactiveBoulevardier Ping @SaintPaulOfTarsus Just pinging frequent editors of the Russo-Ukrainian war on whether it is confirmed that there are clashes taking place around the city of Vuhledar. Would like their feedback. Gerald1984 (talk) 21:34, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

From what I've seen, maybe, some people have said Russia has been trying to storm the city for the past day or so, and making serious attempts rather than rolling around on dirt bikes, although I haven't seen reliable sources talking about it. There are, however events that have happened around the city prior to this week that can be mentioned as well, such as the advances up to the road near the city near Vodiane and Pavlivka. [1] [2] Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Reports from the best available TG collators on both sides suggest so.

If the operational situation develops further, we may have to figure out a new battle titling scheme.

Cheers, RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 13:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

This could be the 2nd Battle of Ugledar, where this one should be called the first with a Ukrainian victory. 83.23.165.237 (talk) 16:46, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

New article?

The battle of Vuhledar stalled and ended in Ukrainian defensive victory. With new efforts being made to capture the city by Russia should a new page be made for a second battle of Vuhledar? 85.229.111.139 (talk) 14:05, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Agree in principle with the splitting of content.

In my opinion, article titles involving the term battle of Vuhledar, which is generally not found in reliable sources, are uncalled for – second battle would be especially inappropriate, to my mind, as it would be a completely Wikipedia editor-coined neologism. Terms more frequently found in RS, such as assault or offensive should be preferred.

WP:CRYSTAL here, but eventually the most appropriate name for the second article you are proposing may be Capture of Vuhledar.

Then again, we have yet to see how notable the current combat for the city ends up being; it may very well turn out that it warrants only a few sentences in the Eastern Ukraine campaign article.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 15:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

The battle should be changed to Russian victory once Russians inevitably capture the city, the 72nd Mech Brigade has already retreated according to some sources. 2605:A601:5553:B000:5C1:A896:3DC9:FD7 (talk) 03:16, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

If Russia captures Vuhledar then this phase of the engagements around Vuhledar will be marked as a Russian victory, but this would not mean we could call the entirety of the fighting in this area of the front since 2022 as a "Russian victory", as that would wrongfully negate the failure of the past Vuhledar capture attempts in 2023; we could call the entire period of fighting from October 2022 until today as one "battle" (how it is done now) and demarcate the two main phases of the battle in the infobox, split this article into two "Vuhledar offensive" articles, (covering the main assault in early 2023 and this current offensive) or rename this article to the suggested offensive-based name, combining both main offensives to a "Vuhledar offensives" titling. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 03:44, 13 September 2024 (UTC)