Talk:Beetlejuice (musical)
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Cast Replacements
editPer WP: Musical Theatre's Article Structure guideline, non-notable (meaning no blue link/no wikipedia page of their own) actors are not to be mentioned as cast replacements in the cast list. People seem to be determined to add McClure and Caruso's replacements, but they are not notable. I mentioned their replacement in the Production section prose as a compromise (senior editors, if you feel this is wrong, feel free to remove completely). Please stop trying to add them to the cast list. Future edits of that nature will be removed and directed to this note. Apathyash (talk) 15:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with this approach by Apathyash. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:04, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
Miss Argentina in D.C. Tryouts
editThere has been some debate regarding the existence of the Miss Argentina character in the Washington D.C. production of the show, along with who originated the role. There have been several attempts by different people to acknowledge this in the page, but these attempts have been rejected. The reasons given were either because there was a lack of usable evidence or simply because there apparently was no Miss Argentina in the tryout. This had me a bit confused, since many people I've spoken with insisted otherwise.
The common claim is that Kim Sava, a member of the show's ensemble, originated the role of Miss Argentina and played the role during the D.C. tryouts and early Broadway rehearsals.
Reasoning
editThis is evident from several posts on Instagram, per WP:INSTAGRAM.
- In the ninth slide of this post by cast member Dana Steingold, we can see a photo taken during the D.C. production. On the left, Kim Sava can be seen wearing her Miss Argentina costume: a green body-suit, an orange wig, a tiara, and a sash.
- In this post from February 2019, Kim Sava shows her script book, which states her role as: Miss Argentina / Ensemble. It should be noted that understudy roles are not listed on the front of script books.[1]
- In this post by cast member Eric Anthony Johnson, we can see a video of a February 2019 rehearsal. In this video, Kim Sava is seen covering the role, doing the character's blocking and holding the character's clipboard prop.[2]
Additionally, in Eddie Perfect's commentary for the demo of Miss Argentina's song "What I Know Now", he states: "Miss Argentina was in the show as a background character in Washington D.C., but she really just sort of stood in the line for the metal detector to go into the Netherworld. She walked through, it dinged, she was off."[3]
This directly refutes the note under the cast list that says "The role of Miss Argentina was added after tryouts in D.C."
Kim Sava has confirmed through Instagram direct messages that she was the original Miss Argentina during the D.C. tryouts and early Broadway rehearsals, and that the change in casting occurred "right before [they] moved to the theatre". I highly doubt there is a way to make these messages usable as evidence. If there is, please let me know.
Request
editMy main request is that we change the note under the cast list to at least acknowledge the existence of the role in the D.C. tryouts. Suggested wording with citations:
"The role of Miss Argentina was originally part of Kim Sava's ensemble track as a smaller role during tryouts in D.C.[4] During the first Broadway run, Miss Argentina and Delia were done together by Leslie Kritzer. For the 2022 remount and first US tour, the roles were again separated."
If possible, I also request that Kim Sava be included on the cast list, replacing the "N/A" with "Kim Sava".
- ^ Kim Sava [@ksava3] (February 14, 2019). "First Day filled with love AND it's Valentines Day?! #itsacircus @beetlejuicebway #thegigglesarestrongtoday". New 42 Studios – via Instagram.
{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: location (link) CS1 maint: url-status (link) - ^ Eric Anthony Johnson [@ericanthonyjohnson] (January 4, 2023). "Real Beetlejuice Musical fans know that EVERYTHING IS KINDA MEH (sung by Boy Inferno) was the original Netherworld song in DC, but did you know that the football running back once threw down a verse on WHAT I KNOW NOW?! Feb. 2019" – via Instagram.
{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link) - ^ Perfect, Eddie (October 29, 2020). "What I Know Now [2019 Original Demo] - Eddie Perfect Commentary" (video). youtube.com.
{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link) - ^ Dana Steingold [@dsteinface] (January 6, 2023). "3 days, 10 random memories 9. stuck in an elevator out of town" – via Instagram.
{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
SadLittleBikeRack (talk) 20:24, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
- It's very simple. You need to cite WP:Reliable sources that confirm this clearly. Dana Steingold would not appear to be a WP:RS, and I don't even see how this instagram post says any of what you are claiming. Your last two sentences do not have a citation at all. Finally, even if this is true and you find adequate sources that satisfy WP:V and WP:RS, you need to show that it is WP:NOTEWORTHY. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:06, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Re: editing the plot to say Lydia is suicidal
editWhile I don't know if it's essential to the plot description to say " Lydia flees to the roof in order to commit suicide by jumping off," @Ssilvers, the anonymous editor is correct that Lydia says "I wish I was dead!", then the scene cuts to the roof and after Beetlejuice sings the reprise, Lydia is seen on the roof writing a letter and writes "By the time you read this, I will be gone. There's nothing left for me here." In the song that follows ("Say My Name"), Beetlejuice is trying to talk Lydia out of jumping and at one point Lydia sings "I think I'd rather just jump off-"
Also, in our current plot description we do say in the next sentence "He becomes ecstatic however when he realizes Lydia can see him and tries to convince her not to kill herself, with the intention of getting her to free him from his curse." So if we are removing mentions of her suicidal intentions we should remove that too.
Just my two cents. Apathyash (talk) 18:38, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks! I've made some tweaks to clarify (Note that we already used the phrase "tries to convince" a couple of sentences earlier. See if you like them. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:39, 10 April 2024 (UTC)