Talk:Beijing

Change the first image on the Beijing article to the Forbidden City

Forbidden City is more recognisable than the CBD plus the first images on the NYC, Paris and London articles are also landmarks This post was made in response to the edit revert by Remsense IceKingWasTaken (talk) 20:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I think the central business district is a more general overview of the city compared to a photo of the Forbidden City. The examples you gave are not examples of similar landmark-only photos. New York shows Midtown Manhattan (and the Empire state building). Paris shows much of the central arrondissement as well as the Eiffel Tower. London shows the River Thames, the Tower Bridge, The Shard, the Tower of London and the City of London. Cerebral726 (talk) 20:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

If not the Forbidden City, at least change it to something more recognisable - because right now it looks like any other generic city. Something like this:

File:FileBeijingPhoto.png

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IceKingWasTaken (talk) 19:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I mean, it looks like a major city, because it is one. Understanding that memorizing skylines isn't something most people accomplish to any level, it does look like Beijing to me, even if it's not the most distinctive skyline. Remsense留 19:02, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think "being recognisable" or not should be the main factor at play here, partly because that just differs wildly for different groups of people.

• the central business district is a more general overview of the city What in that particular image gives a general overview of the city? Which other thing about the city does it cover? It's flat, but there's also the hills in the back. It has the main tracks with a bullet train. And then some other tertiary stuff. This is not a picture to give a general overview of Beijing, such would show more important objects, and some of those I can think of actually also show the CBD in the back where it was put for a reason.
• Paris shows much of the central arrondissement as well as the Eiffel Tower So it shows the main part of the city, two UNESCO landmarks (Notre-Dame cannot be omitted from here), which in the case of Paris show exactly what it is about: many houses of uniform height neatly packed together, many with a distinct architecture, roofs, facades, etc., Eiffel and Notre-Dame sticking out, the river. That is Paris. The CBD image here is definitely not Beijing in that same sense. And out of the many possible options for "main part" of Beijing, who answers CBD? Not even those who work there.
• London shows the River Thames, the Tower Bridge, The Shard, the Tower of London and the City of London While I'm not a fan of that image either (Paris should have better options as well) —— exactly! How much of such can be listed for this Beijing CBD one?
• it looks like a major city, because it is one Yeah, but the point was the indistinguishability aspect. It's not really that people need to recognise it I think, it's more about the idea that people can tell it apart from other cities easily even if they've never seen it before. That is possible. The current CBD image, with all the other objects it covers (and doesn't), does look very generic indeed.
• it does look like Beijing to me Sure, just think of the very many more images of the city in your head that encapsulate Beijing for you, though you definitely wouldn't put them in the infobox. Is it really about "that's what it is" or "that's how it looks like"?

Most of this - even if only in response - is just wp:wax, however, or very, very subjective. Even though I actually like it in itself, I don't think the image in question is a good pick here in general, especially not as the first one. Maybe as the last, at least at a lower position, preferably another image altogether, even if that is of the CBD, too.

Isn't "being representative" the main idea behind those images? Not in the sense of the "average look", but, err, what people "associate" the city with, what locals would tell uninformed non-locals about first, what well-informed tourists visit that is important to the city's history, something like that. At least that's the general idea I got from the other articles, and what makes sense to me as well.

The "skyline" of Beijing doesn't fall under any such consideration for me; rather the opposite actually. I'd even pick just the CCTV HQ before it. It's a no-brainer for NYC, definitely the first image for Shanghai, but who really associates it with Beijing? Again, not even many people who work in the CBD. My immediate thought on how to represent the city actually was a hutong, and that isn't even one the current six funnily enough.

Tl,dr: I agree that smth about them should be changed; have smth like Tiananmen, Forbidden City on top; replace Great Hall and Egg with hutong; switch order/pic choice of same object to keep having artistic picture on bottom. EnTerbury (talk) 16:42, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Climate

The meteorological observation station "Beijing" (WMO ID: 54511) is situated in the driest region in Beijing plain, making it less representative of the overall precipitation patterns in the entire Beijing area or its city center. On the other hand, "Haidian" (WMO ID: 54399) provides a better depiction of the city center's climate, boasting an annual average precipitation of 586mm (1991-2020) or 604mm (1994-2023). Furthermore, Beijing's abundant trees and forests suggest that the Dwa climate classification is a more accurate descriptor compared to Bsk. 38.90.18.251 (talk) 04:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely! דולב חולב (talk) 21:47, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

You can add Haidan district’s table to the main article (or the geography article) if you think there is a problem about general classification.PAper GOL (talk) 10:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I just added climate classification of all the districts (by their representative WMO stations) in the main article.

Dwa: Haidian, Chaoyang, Fengtai, Shijingshan, Fangshan, Mentougou, Huairou, Miyun, Shunyi, Pinggu, and also Dongcheng & Xicheng (no WMO stations, but determined by data from regional stations over the past 10 years)

Bsk: Daxing, Tongzhou district in the south ("Beijing" observation station is located in Daxing, 39.80N 116.47E), and Changping and Yanqing district in the northwest. 38.98.188.42 (talk) 12:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I reverted the station names, which would have to be sourced individually per WP:V. Uness232 (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Beijing’s climate

When does Beijing became semi arid?

it’s a dry winter continental city Dwa. דולב חולב (talk) 21:50, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Unseen @PAper GOL דולב חולב (talk) 21:31, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

With these values it's just below the threshold.(threshold 546)

Classification looks right.PAper GOL (talk) 06:03, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I’d love to hear more about the threshold, but Beijing is such a known continental monsoon Dwa city! It appears in every video explaining the Dwa climate! דולב חולב (talk) 03:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

It surrounded by woodlands and forests!

How can it be semi arid!? דולב חולב (talk) 03:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

“Semi-arid climates tend to support short, thorny or scrubby vegetation and are usually dominated by either grasses or shrubs as they usually cannot support forests.”

from the semi arid climate article. דולב חולב (talk) 03:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Average annual temp is 13.3, multiplied by 20 is 266 and since more than 70% of precip falls in high-sun half of the year, we will add 280. The final result is 546 just above 528mm precip.

However, Beijing is administratively a huge municipiality(Just click on it in google maps). and covers a large area including plains and mountains. The mountainous area is absolutely Dwa and has woodlands/forests, but the area in which the station is located is just on the border. moving southwards climate is semi-arid and flat steppe, northwards it is wooded mountain or grassland that is continental.

Most semi-arid locations are grassy or shruby, but this one is a borderline example, and we cannot be certain about the biome of borderline examples.PAper GOL (talk) 07:32, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

"Most semi-arid locations are grassy or shruby, but this one is a borderline example". In my opinion, this is not a "borderline example", but a failure of Koppen classification - the entire North China plain is not grassy, not only Beijing. Koppen supposed that more precipitation fall in summer but not winter is not good for trees, which is questionable.

Anyway, I am not going to argue about this. But you may take a look at Haidian, Beijing - Wikipedia or Chaoyang, Beijing - Wikipedia - the majority of WMO stations in Beijing including those that are much closer to the city center have a clear and comfortable Dwa climate. 38.98.191.240 (talk) 09:11, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Then why not put them in the main article for better illustration? The data in the city’s main article is borderline classification, but more towards BSk. Tianjin is also BSk border, if that is also Dwa in the main area, then it should have its data as well. It’s not a matter of wether the classification fails or not. It’s about clarifying how it got classified at the first place.PAper GOL (talk) 10:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

And i saw the requirement is at least 10 times the precipitation of the driest winter month, in the wettest summer month.

the driest month of winter has 2.2mm and the wettest has 169mm on average.

that’s way more than enough. דולב חולב (talk) 03:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

@דולב חולב At this point, please see WP:CIR. I understand that you are making these edits in good faith and are just trying to learn, but people have been explaining the same things over and over again to you, and yet you refuse to take one complete look to the rules of Köppen. The threshold marks the distinction between B and all other climate types in Köppen, and one look at any source would make that obvious.

People have also told you that biome is not the driving factor of the Köppen classification, and yet you keep making arguments about biome. Editors should not have to assuage your concerns every time for issues so trivial most could figure it out by themselves quite easily. Uness232 (talk) 05:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

@Climate דולב חולב (talk) 21:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

So last question why Harbin is still considered as Dwa with the same precipitation levels? — Preceding unsigned comment added by דולב חולב (talk • contribs) 18:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@דולב חולב Becuase it is colder. Uness232 (talk) 19:13, 3 March 2024 (UTC)