Talk:Ben Luján

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Ben Luján. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080204062937/http://www.abqtrib.com:80/news/2006/dec/19/dems-keep-lujan-head-house/ to http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2006/dec/19/dems-keep-lujan-head-house/
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.santafenewmexican.com/Local%20News/12192012lujan#.UNF9zm_BF8E

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:59, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Possible Relationship to Michelle Luján Grisham

I deleted Michelle Luján Grisham from the relatives box since Ben Ray Luján denies being cousins with Michelle. (https://twitter.com/benraylujan/status/1289382702844481536) However, on geni.com there is a claim that Ben and Michelle are fourth cousins once removed, if I counted correctly; go to https://www.geni.com/people/Manuel-de-Jes%C3%BAs-Luj%C3%A1n/6000000042269209577 and click on the "Father of links" until you reach them. Geni.com might not be reliable, though. The deletion seems appropriate to me anyway, since Michelle is not a "cousin" of Ben as usually understood, but I don't know if anyone wants to include the information, or if it's includable. Mwphil (talk) 14:29, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

This twitter thread https://twitter.com/xenocryptsite/status/1112757327294279680 has more discussion and some additional sourcing, as well as a graphical representation of the family tree. Presumably we'd need better sourcing to add anything in, but it's a place to look if anyone's interested. Mwphil (talk) 14:36, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That twitter thread is not reliable. Geni.com is not reliable. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s and Ben Ray Lujan’s fathers were brothers, making them first cousins. This relation is not “possible.” Do not remove the information. KidAd (💬💬) 19:15, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

First of all, this is the entry for Ben Luján, Ben Ray Luján's father, so if Ben Ray Luján's father was the brother of Michelle Lujan Grisham's father then the infobox should say "niece" not "cousin."

Second, do you have a citation for that? I would not consider either that thread or Geni.com reliable, but that would seem to mean that there is no reliable source saying that Lujan Grisham is related to Luján at all, while there is an explicit denial from Ben Ray Luján that they are related. In the absence of a reliable source for the relation, shouldn't MLG be removed from the infobox? I'm not going to revert myself because I don't want to start an edit war, but I think we need sourcing here. Mwphil (talk) 05:17, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I believe that https://aldianews.com/articles/politics/psa-michelle-lujan-grisham-and-ben-ray-lujan-arent-cousins/59869 is a better fit for Wikipedia's criteria for a reliable source than BRL's tweet saying that he is not MLG's cousin, though I'm not sure that it counts as super reliable. The closest thing to a reliable source that I can find saying that MLG and BRL are related is https://www.eenews.net/special_reports/energy_scions/stories/1060020946, though its sourcing for saying that Michelle Lujan Grisham is related is thin to nonexistent ´(Ben Ray Luján's comment about "You have to go pretty far back" is about Manuel Luján, and the article puts an accent on Michelle Lujan Grisham's name that she doesn't appear to use). The obituaries for Ben Luján, Sr. and for Michelle Lujan Grisham's father do not record suggest that they are closely related. Mwphil (talk) 12:50, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

References