Talk:Benign fasciculation syndrome/Archive 1

Credible sources?

Is the "Journal of Chirpractic Medicine" a credible source on "gluten neuropathy" - or anything, for that matter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.216.59.226 (talk) 07:55, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Anxiety?

It's possible that BFS is caused by anxiety in a very remote sense-- if i have BFS (and i think i do) then i can induce the fasciculations by flexing the localized muscle groups. possibly, a person with BFS might flex up if he's anxious in the same way he would if he heard a loud noise or sneezed.

(also when i move the muscle the twitch doesn't go away immediately)

Fixed the discussion page

The discussion page was pretty badly organized so I fixed things for you guys. Remember to sign your posts with four tildas. I agree with all of you about how poorly written the article is and I think that any one of you should go ahead and clean it up. I might even do it myself. As long as you have references. I think the emphasis on anxiety, even suggesting it as a cause, is absolutely ludicrous. And my fasciculations aren't even benign (I have a syrinx)! Anybody would have anxiety. Just more crap from the medical community to explain what they don't understand. They betray the very basis of science. Cyborg Ninja 07:53, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Thought it might be helpful to know that after seeing many doctors and waiting 4 months to get into UCLA, an intelligent and thoughtful neurologist agreed that twitching (which started in my stomach and gravitated to my entire body and then my face within a years time, among other symptoms such as numbness, pain, buzzing, etc.) specifically said that BFS is NOT caused by anxiety itself, but as some of you suggested here, BFS is anxiety provoking and naturally can make it worse at times but is not the root cause. Many, many things can cause BFS that the list can go on and on-from hormones, vitamin deficiencies, medications, etc. etc. When it reached my face, it was personal. After 9 months of it in my face, and getting worse, my neurologist agreed to try Botox. We shall see. I just needed some relief, and medications do not work forever in some patients. I have ten to fourteen days to see if the Botox calms it down. This condition can turn you into a wreck and if your someone who is sometimes anxious, it just makes it worse. But no, anxiety is not the cause. I feel doctors have a hard time taking these sometimes debilitating conditions seriously because once they rule out very bad diseases such as MS, ALS, Parkinson's, etc. they seem to think well-"at least it is not MS" and of course I would imagine we are grateful it is not once that diagnosis is hopefully reached. But seriously, it still, as the new doctor I finally found put it, "needs to be treated". After all, we want to be productive members of society and this just makes it hard to do. Mine is so bad around my mouth right now it kept me up from sleep and I had to stay in bed, laying on that side of my mouth, holding it so the little "heart beats" below the skin could not be felt too much and I could calm down enough to sleep. And for those patients out there who get this a lot from others "But I cannot see it" they just do not understand. You CAN see it if you happen to catch it in a mirror and it is your body, and very uncomfortable, especially in the facial area. It makes me want to hide from the world. I guess it can be added to the list of conditions that need more research but it is not considered serious enough. Perhaps the word "benign" and "syndrome" throws it off. It should probably be called Fasciculation Condition or something, so it is taken more seriously by doctors. Botox, if it works, does not work forever so what is a patient to do beyond that? It is upsetting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmscandy (talk • contribs) 21:29, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

BFS comments

I think it would be helpful if the list of conditions that may lead to BFS, or be associated with it, was expanded. Also, it might be better if the article were a little more structured into sub-categories. Generally, however, I thought the page was pretty good when I viewed it.

My meta-comment (which may not be very popular here) is that Wikipedia would be more valuable with a more structured moderation process, with signed "frozen" articles subject to change by a voting or committee process. If I'm a patient researching medical conditions on Wikipedia, I'd like to know whether the person(s) writing the articles had any medical training or credentials; and I'd like to know that some joker didn't just randomly change something they had written.

This is not meant as a commentary or criticism of this particular article; it's just that medical topics point up, perhaps more than anything else, the inherent weakness of the Wiki concept.

I like the comment on stress being a cause, particularly medical school. I'm a med student and seem to have noticed some fasciulations in the last year or two. Note, other sources suggest caffeine may also be a cause.

New comment--In answer to your question, above, the person who wrote the BFS description has no medical training at all but posts prolifically on various medical help sites. Some of the information he gives is good and some is totally wrong (he's told people that if their symptoms improve they can't have MS, for instance). It will not surprise you to learn that he has BFS, ADD, essential tremor and extreme health anxiety. I think his BFS post is more a projection than a definition. You won't find the information he posted in any legitimate medical text.

This unpublished paper attempts to link potential causes / triggers with BFS symptoms, remedy success, and body areas affected by symptoms. Survey data used in the paper is also available and BFS suferers can join the survey because the study is ongoing. The unofficial survey used for the paper was done on aboutbfs.com and showed statistical significance in finding various types of BFS, with similar symptoms, causes and potential treatments. According to the data over 75% of the people in the survey feel their BFS is stress related and gets worse as anxiety levels increase. However, stress induced BFS is unique in the fact it is the only type of BFS that can be alleviated to a large extent. Most other types of BFS talked about in the paper (Vaccine induced BFS, Exercise induced BFS, Sickness induced BFS, etc.) tend to get worse over time since most remedies (drugs, diet, yoga, etc.) do very little to alleviate symptoms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pamabo (talk • contribs) 18:06, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

References

What a mess

This syndrome has nothing to do with anxiety, except that it creates anxiety in anxious people who happen to also have it. Every reference to anxiety, including globus sensation, could be stricken from the article to its improvement. -ikkyu2 (talk) 23:34, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the main problem to me is that the article seem to tell that anxiety is caused by this, as a symptom. I think that's only casually correlated. If you're suffering from anxiety during some time, you may get this, but I don't think it works the other way around, as some sort of implied psychological disorder. -- Northgrove 07:10, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there any research establishing causation in either direction? For what it's worth, I got this and it definitely caused me great anxiety. I was not an anxious person beforehand either. A mayo clinic study of 121 people with BFS found that 40 of them worked in the health industry. That would seem to indicate to me that BFS indeed does CAUSE anxiety, at least in people somewhat more familiar with the symptoms of neuro-muscular diseases. [1] 67.84.209.140 (talk) 10:54, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

This is garbage.

I agree that this has nothing to do with anxiety. Whoever wrote this is full of crap....sounds like the author is a shrink or some kind of arrogant quack who attributes everything that he can't explain to anxiety. What a jerk.

Isn't it interesting that everything that can't be explained by medical science is attributed to anxiety by arrogant jerks who have never even experienced the symptom?

I don't know if I would be so quick to write this off as quackwork. While there is little research to denote what is behind BFS, as there is little in any benign condition of idiopathic origin, anxiety does make a lot of stuff happen in the body. Granted, I am only a third year med student, but, I can only tell you what I've seen on the floors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terragamo (talk • contribs) 18:45, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

damn I`m so afraid since it get worsen... I have to be a lawer... God... plz stop it!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.221.43.238 (talk) 14:32, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Comments from a new wikipedia user

I am an emergency physician and recently was diagnosed by a neurologist with benign fasciculation syndrome or is he called it, cramp fasciculation syndrome -- CFS. I thought the article was generally well-written, however I agree with the commentaries highlighting an apparent over emphasis on anxiety in the discussion, I felt it was too much as well. I did make an edit, my first-ever, disputing the conclusion that anxiety could be used to aid in the diagnosis of this syndrome. Anyone who has a potentially life-threatening illness would also be anxious, my grandfather died of ALS, if I had ALS, I would be anxious about that too. Having been diagnosed with BFS instead, I have very little anxiety. Since I also have ADD, I would like to know where the author found references linking ADD to CFS. DF

Sources for Anxiety (or any) Claims in This Article?

Can anyone supply references to support claims in this article that imply anxiety is a causal factor in BFS? All I've found in the medical literature is Mitsikostas et al, who merely found that fasciculation potentials "were slightly correlated to the body weight and height and to the anxiety level." Finding a slight correlation hardly fits the numeous unreferenced claims in this article that imply anxiety is a known primary cause. Can anyone supply supporting literature references for those or any claims in this article? Ian Goddard 05:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I've been through BFS, and my anxiety resulted from, it did not cause, the problem. My neurologist told me that this was the standard experience: strange twitching, pain resulting from the twitching, severe anxiety (most often found in patients intelligent enough to do research on the symptoms or whose primary care physicians send them to a neurologist out of concern that they are suffering from ALS.). He also informed me that he had reason to believe that the condition was triggered by a cold or flu virus. He put me on an anti-anxiety drug but not, primarily, to allay anxiety: the reason was that it was a direct muscle relaxant and it effectively alleviated the symptoms until the condition cleared up on its own. This article requires MUCH more serious medical research.68.72.84.142 23:23, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm responsible for much of the original content of this article, and also for the statements about anxiety. The fact that BFS is often associated with anxiety is, I gather, a "public secret" among neurologists -- they see it frequently and recognize it but no one talks about it. But a high degree of health anxiety, and, oddly, anxiety specifically about ALS, is almost diagnostic of BFS. You only need to participate in some of the forums frequented by BFS people to appreciate this.

I speculate that there is a chemical reason for this (though I can't quite explain the peculiar fixation on ALS): I presume that anxiety causes the brain to release cholinergic chemicals (similar to organophosphate toxins) in order to "prepare" the body for action. Among other things this lowers the action threshold of the muscles and makes them more apt to twitch. But, of course, modern anxiety is rarely followed by a need for action, and the physical effects of the chemicals (twitching, increased heart rate, etc) simply increase the sense of anxiety. drh 23:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I was not a hypochondriac about ALS until I got BFS67.84.209.140 (talk) 10:57, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Me again. Now that I think about it, I actually started fearing ALS based on a sore wrist, and BFS followed shortly there after. In other words, the exact opposite of what I said above was true. First I was a hypochondriac, then I got BFS. 67.84.209.140 (talk) 22:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Most importantly there are insufficient references to recent literature (2000-2007) where half a dozen of so respected medical researchers are exploring an autoimmune basis. I also recommend reducing the anxiety connection. Various signs and symptoms cause anxiety in those prone to anxiety, who then hang out on internet forums and exhibit hypochondriacal behavior, such as requiring constant assurance that they don't have ALS or MS. All this is typical for afflictions that are mysterious and mimic lethal diseases, but not specific to BFS. Me personally, I have BFS. I had anxiety for about four weeks: the interval between my first internet symptom search and my reassuring neuro exam. No anxiety since. Anyway, someone, preferably a medical type, needs to get the references to autoimmune research in there. 74.136.203.63 03:54, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Neurologist

This article is fine minus the indications about ascertainment bias. That sounds like a pissed off neurologist, no doubt. A lot of angry patients on here. I understand your frustration with the amount of testing you went through for this waste diagnosis.

Agreed about the first part, so I took it out. I haven't gone through any testing yet, but I'm gonna do it just to piss off the neurologist more.67.84.209.140 (talk) 11:01, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe this article isn't nearly succinct enough. 71.195.4.244 (talk) 23:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)JD

Cramp Fasciculation Syndrome

I believe that if cramping is involved then this syndrome is named Cramp Fasciculation Syndrome or Benign Cramp Fasciculation Syndrome. Is it possible to have references to these names to help those diagnosed with the CFS or BCFS. I was diagnosed with BCFS / CFS by three different neuromuscular consults at three different hospitals and I had at least 3 EMGs over the past 4-5 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danno2010 (talk • contribs) 03:31, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Cannabis as a Tx for BPF? That needs a source

I'm taking this out:

"Cannabis has been effective at mitigating the severity of the symptoms with minimal to no side effects, particularly Indica strains that are high in the non-psychoactive cannabidiol (CBD)."

I have nothing against cannabis, but that is certainly incorrect in most cases, and I'm sure that no source exists for that statement.

It would be easier to make a case that cannabis can aggravate BFS for most people, and it would certainly be more accurate.

Weed is great, but it's not a panacea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.41.102 (talk) 07:28, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

The high-CBD strains may indeed be useful in such treatments. There were two studies I recall seeing, in Brazil or Australia, discussing these strains as a replacement for anxiolytics. In a more general sense, marijuana has been recommended as a treatment for muscle spasms, which was mentioned several times in CNN's coverage of the young girl with Dravet Syndrome (e.g., http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/07/health/charlotte-child-medical-marijuana/index.html). None of this warrants putting the statement back in, of course, this is just a brain dump until I can track down those two papers I recall reading. Lex.shrapnel (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

So "as a replacement for anxiolytics" might have been a bit strong, but here are the articles I mentioned: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22729452, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20829306, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23653088, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23298518. I don't really know anything about the subject matter, at this point, so I won't attempt to update the article myself with any of this information, but perhaps someone else can make use of it (or maybe I could at a later date). Lex.shrapnel (talk) 21:59, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Mayo Clinic study

Can anyone find the original published study from the Mayo Clinic on BFS, as referenced in the main article: "In a study by the Mayo Clinic 121 individuals diagnosed with Benign Fasciculation Syndrome were assessed 2–32 years (~7 years average) after diagnosis." The reference provided simply goes to an "online community" that claims the findings are from the Mayo Clinic. I did my best to track down the original research myself but was unsuccessful. If you go to the Mayo Clinic's website, and search for "benign fasciculation syndrome", 0 results come up. If something more substantial cannot be found, it might be worth a conversation of what to do with that reference. Lex.shrapnel (talk) 21:12, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

As is always the case, as soon as I claimed that I couldn't find it... I found it: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8215252 (via http://www.bfsrecovery.com/whatisbfs.php). Unfortunately, it's behind a pay-wall, and my University doesn't give me access to the 1993 issues of that journal, so I can't confirm the text (although it certainly looks genuine). Lex.shrapnel (talk) 21:25, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay, the text is genuine. Accordingly, I'll leave the existing reference and add a citation to the pubmed link. Lex.shrapnel (talk) 21:48, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

St. Vittus Dance

According to a book from 1959, muscle twitching and mental disturbances are a symptom of a infectious nerve disease called "Veitstanz". And there's no mention of Alzheimer's. There, it's called "Dementia Senilis". I have the twitching already 11 years now. I do absolutely no sports and smoke a lot. After i quit smoking for 3 months, i believe it got less. I only get it when lying and when i relax all the muscles. Could it have something to do with disturbances of the blood circulation? The blood goes to very fine capillaries. Watch a glass of water and see if the water vibrates as if there was an earthquake. It could even be connected with the tides. Perhaps small vibrations are amplified in the vessel systems and make the blood flow irregular and then you see the muscles jumping. Sorry for my poor English, perhaps i already have mad cow, but... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.201.11.104 (talk) 06:07, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

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