Talk:Benjamin Franklin/Archive 5
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Semi-protected edit request on 28 February 2024
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When he returned home in 1785, Franklin occupied a position second only to that of George Washington as the champion of American independence. He returned from France with an unexplained shortage of 100,000 pounds in Congressional funds. In response to a question from a member of Congress about this, Franklin, quoting the Bible, quipped, "Muzzle not the ox that treadeth out his master's grain." The missing funds were never again mentioned in Congress.[1]
The above section from the page should be removed or changed, the source shown is correct that wording is from Harlow Unger's book. The book completely misrepresents the quote, timing, and meaning.
Cite: First the ill cite my source, The Works of Benjamin Franklin (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons,1904, 12 vols.), 9:14. this is the exact citation used in Unger's book.
1. The 'question' from a member of congress did not happen upon Franklin's return from France in 1785. The correspondence was on 12 August, 1782. 3 years before his return. The subtitle of the work clearly states these letters are from 1781-1782.
2. The congressmen who questioned franklin was Robert Morris who held the position of superintendency of Finances. (first letter same cite). This was a time before the constitution he was acting with similar responsibility as the post constitution secretary of treasury.
3. I present you the quote from Benjamin franklin. "I observe what you mention of the order, that the ministers’ salaries are to be hereafter paid in America. I hereby empower and desire you to receive and remit mine. I do not doubt your doing it regularly and timely; for a minister without money, I perceive, makes a ridiculous figure here, though secure from arrests. I have taken a quarter’s advance of salary from the 4th of last month, supposing it not intended to muzzle immediately the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn." - He is stating that the money will be paid in America and since he is not in America, he will need to take that money out of a foreign loan.
4. "The missing funds were never again mentioned in Congress." They were never mentioned every in congress, just letters between the 'cabinet' members and Franklin. Franklin did have to write specifically about bill deferred or paid after that date like on 14 October 1782 when he wrote Robert Livingston about his pay. (Franklin, Benjamin. The Works of Benjamin Franklin, Vol. X Letters and Misc. Writings 1782-1784. G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1904, pp. 15-16.)
In conclusion, this quote misrepresents Franklin's position, counter party context, & basic timing. Harlow Giles Unger's book should not be used as a reliable source going forward. Snooky2go (talk) 07:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Harlow Giles Unger, "Thomas Paine and the Clarion Call for American Independence" (New York: Da Capo Press, 2019), p. 90.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Thickynugnug (talk) 03:54, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Lead
Lead should ideally have <= 4 paragraphs per MOS:LEAD. There are of course exceptions, but there's currently 7 paragraphs, and some of them could potentially be merged. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 05:25, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
- E.g. the second and third could potentially be merged, as with the fourth and fifth. 104.232.119.107 (talk) 05:25, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Baptism
He was baptised in a building not yet built ... interesting ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.151.136.253 (talk) 13:22, 15 September 2024 (UTC)