Talk:Bernard Donoughue, Baron Donoughue
Latest comment: 2 years ago by DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered in topic Has he died? Is there an RS?
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biographies of living people
editwikipedia has very strict policies on biographies of living people. Lord Donoughue is quite alive and these policies apply - please read WP:BLP. I put the citation needed tags on back in November. It must have citations and there cannot be unsourced, unverifiable statements in it.Jytdog (talk) 12:29, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
- Books are not unsourced or unverifiable. Claiming otherwise makes no sense: you are not understanding those terms. 86.136.86.11 (talk) 15:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- Statements need to be sourced. Hand-waving references to "books" is not acceptable. Which book says he "had a remarkably youthful appearance"? This sounds like unverifiable references of some "old chum". What if the text said: "His breath sme'led remarkably like fresh horse manure" and I said "oh, its in a book"? NOT ACCEPTABLE under WP:BLP. read it.Jytdog (talk) 16:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- You have put "citation needed" in the Works section. That section lists published books, and you do not seem to be understanding that: a published book is its own source. Additionally, included in the Works is a biography, which is the source of the rest of the material. I have added a note to that effect. 86.136.86.11 (talk) 18:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- By citation needed on the books, I meant complete refs needed. Fixed that. Content I deleted outright looks like unverifiable information. What I left looks verifiable, someone just needs to do it. If, as you noted, most of the content is indeed sourced from the autobiography, please note that autobiographies are not reliable sources under WP:SPS. And personal attacks are unwelcome in edit notes. Jytdog (talk) 18:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- I like most of the changes you made. About the Visiting Professorship at LSE, I could not find anything on the LSE web site. I found a reference from 2011 though; so I put this back in, with an end date of "2011/2012" (I assume that the professorship ended, else it would be on the web site). A copy of each book published in the UK is stored in the British Library; so details of books (including ISBNs) can be confirmed in the Library catalogue. 86.136.86.11 (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- Glad we are working together now. Question for you. Several places say he "was educated at Harvard" but I cannot find any information on that on the web. I would be comfortable adding that and using those sources, but I would want to say also what he did there. He apparently didn't attain any degree there but maybe he was some sort of visiting scholar. Do you know what he did at Harvard, and where that can be sourced? The autobiography would be fine for that, backed up by the other references to his time at Harvard. thxJytdog (talk) 16:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- Me too! He did not obtain a degree from Harvard; could it say something like “He was a Heary Fellow to Harvard [1] [2]” ? 86.136.86.11 (talk) 20:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- Glad we are working together now. Question for you. Several places say he "was educated at Harvard" but I cannot find any information on that on the web. I would be comfortable adding that and using those sources, but I would want to say also what he did there. He apparently didn't attain any degree there but maybe he was some sort of visiting scholar. Do you know what he did at Harvard, and where that can be sourced? The autobiography would be fine for that, backed up by the other references to his time at Harvard. thxJytdog (talk) 16:55, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- I like most of the changes you made. About the Visiting Professorship at LSE, I could not find anything on the LSE web site. I found a reference from 2011 though; so I put this back in, with an end date of "2011/2012" (I assume that the professorship ended, else it would be on the web site). A copy of each book published in the UK is stored in the British Library; so details of books (including ISBNs) can be confirmed in the Library catalogue. 86.136.86.11 (talk) 12:21, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
- By citation needed on the books, I meant complete refs needed. Fixed that. Content I deleted outright looks like unverifiable information. What I left looks verifiable, someone just needs to do it. If, as you noted, most of the content is indeed sourced from the autobiography, please note that autobiographies are not reliable sources under WP:SPS. And personal attacks are unwelcome in edit notes. Jytdog (talk) 18:50, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- You have put "citation needed" in the Works section. That section lists published books, and you do not seem to be understanding that: a published book is its own source. Additionally, included in the Works is a biography, which is the source of the rest of the material. I have added a note to that effect. 86.136.86.11 (talk) 18:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
- Statements need to be sourced. Hand-waving references to "books" is not acceptable. Which book says he "had a remarkably youthful appearance"? This sounds like unverifiable references of some "old chum". What if the text said: "His breath sme'led remarkably like fresh horse manure" and I said "oh, its in a book"? NOT ACCEPTABLE under WP:BLP. read it.Jytdog (talk) 16:02, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Bibliography
editI have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. ISBNs and other persistent identifiers, where available, are commented out, but still available for reference. This is a work in progress; feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 (talk) 11:11, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Has he died? Is there an RS?
editA lot of recent changes say that he died a few days ago, but as far as I can see there is no source for this and I have so far failed to find it in the media. Should this be allowed to stand or be reverted? I'd hate to undo someone's good-faith efforts but surely there must be a source? DBaK (talk) 22:35, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
Done I raised it at the BLP board and it's been reverted for now. Of course if this sad news does turn out to be true then there will be reliable sources for it soon enough, but it's surely better to wait for them. Best to all DBaK (talk) 23:13, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
