Talk:Bernoulli family

Leon

Why is Leon not shown on the family tree? Simply because nobody knows what relation he is to the rest of the family? Smjg (talk) 12:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

How is the name Bernoulli supposed to be pronounced? — Smjg (talk) 12:57, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

The accepted English pronunciation is /bərˈnuːli/. The Collins French pronunciation guide (French: [bɛʁnuˈji]) is not an authentic representation of the family name because of the last syllable. In French, the name is frequently misspelled Bernou-ill-i and mispronounced accordingly (French: [bɛʁnuˈji]) instead of (French: [bɛʁnuˈli]). The French wikipedia article says about the spelling: "Le nom de famille est parfois orthographié, par erreur semble-t-il, Bernouilli". According to the tourist office of Basel, hometown of the Bernoullis, the correct French pronunciation is bernou-li, not bernou-ill-i. A French science forum on internet confirmed that the correct pronunciation in French is bernou-li, not bernou-ill-i.[1]. Ceinturion (talk) 11:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC) - Edit: removed clumsy IPA -

The article is in English, and the pronunciation guide is to help English readers know how to pronounce the name. As the accepted English pronunciation is /bərˈnuːli/, which from the above contribution by Ceinturion is also how it is correctly pronounced in Basel and France, there is no conflict. I will replace the pronunciation guide in the article. Apuldram (talk) 11:27, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Trivia 1: Even on the Moon the family name was misspelled Bernou-i-lli for many years. In the 18th century a moon crater was named Bernoulli. Sadly, it was misspelled Bernou-i-lli in the moon atlas by Beer & Mädler (1836), and a century later (1935) this misspelling was adopted officially by the International Astronomical Union (IAU). Only recently, in 2003, the crater name was officially changed back to Bernoulli by the IAU. [2]

Trivia 2: The City of Paris changed the street name Rue Bernou-i-lli (original street name since 1867) to Rue Bernoulli, in 1994. [3] Ceinturion (talk) 09:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Please see my discussion on pronunciation at Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli. Viktor Laszlo (talk) 15:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Removed French. See Talk:Daniel_Bernoulli#Pronunciation Ceinturion (talk) 15:46, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Since there is no such thing as a Swiss language, could someone please specify whether the given pronounciation is Swiss French or Swiss German? Pqnlrn (talk) 20:13, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Judging from previous discussion the options are German: [bɛʁˈnʊli] and French: [bɛʁnuˈli]. The Bernoullis had a way of pronouncing their name before they moved to Basle, so neither form is necessarily what they would have used themselves. The language debate is a bit of a minefield. The English pronunciation is /bərˈnuːli/. Apuldram (talk) 21:58, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Further thoughts: The article on Basel states "The local variant of the Swiss German dialects is called Basel German", but I think it would be wrong to describe German: [bɛʁˈnʊli] as 'Swiss German' or 'Basel German'. The first is an umbrella term covering many dialects and the IPA-de reference is for German as spoken in Hannover. Apuldram (talk) 13:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

I would like to see some references on the long vowel and the non-gemination of the l. I.e. is it /bɛʁnˈuːli/, /bɛʁnˈuli/, /bɛʁnˈulːi/, /bɛʁnuː'li/, /bɛʁnu'li/ or /bɛʁnu'lːi/? (Switzerland opts for /bɛʁnˈulːi/). Just claiming "The accepted English pronunciation is X" does not cut it, what does "accepted" even mean in this context if you cannot cite any reference? Regarding the Bernouilli spelling, it is open to interpretation whether this was a "misspelling" or simply the "French form" of the name, if it had just been a "misspelling" it would not have persisted for a century or more. I have the impression that it was a consciously French spelling of the name, and only since the 1990s has there been a trend, in France, to return to the "native" form of the name. --dab (𒁳) 09:32, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Niklaus sons

I'm not sure, but I think Nicklaus had ten sons, between them the three cited in the article, but not only them.--Ferran Mir (talk) 07:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

your reason for thinking that would be helpful Apuldram (talk) 09:38, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Another member?

Is Hans Benno Bernoulli a member of this family? He comes from Basel, just askin'.... Ema--or (talk) 00:41, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

He is reportedly a descendant of the family of mathematicians, see here. The wikipedia article on the family mentions that it has many notable descendants. Apuldram (talk) 08:42, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

It is worth mentioning in the article on the architect. Apuldram (talk) 09:20, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Done Apuldram (talk) 11:38, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Margarethe Schönauer

In the history section we read "Leon's great-great-grandson, married Margarethe Schönauer." Who is Margarethe Schönauer and why does she merit such a mention? I think this bit of information should either be clarified or removed.

Aupiff (talk) 04:47, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Religion

We are told they fled the persecution of Protestants but not that they were Protestants. 70.55.15.131 (talk) 13:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Margarethe

Leaving Margarethe out by saying only "Niklaus had four sons," is absurd in 2024. Margarethe contributed half the genes in all four sons, and her half must have been as powerful in mathematical ability as the genes of Niklaus, or this great family cluster of genius mathematicians would not exist. In the past it was believed that men alone contributed inheritable characteristics to the child, and that women were merely the nest in which this fully formed homunculus grew into a baby. E.g. in 1694, Nicolaas Hartsoeker, in his Essai de Dioptrique concerning things large and small that could be seen with optical lenses, produced an image of a tiny human form curled up inside the sperm, which he referred to in the French as petit l'infant and le petit animal. This image, depicting what historians now refer to as the homunculus, has become iconic of the theory of preformationism. The embryologist Caspar Friedrich Wolff refuted preformationism in 1759 in favor of epigenesis, but this did not put an end to preformationism. The historical ideas of preformationism and epigenesis, and the rivalry between them, are obviated by the contemporary understanding of the genetic code and its molecular basis together with developmental biology and modern epigenetics (utterly distinct from the historical). Nick Beeson (talk) 01:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

References