Talk:Bertha Schaefer

Bertha Schaefer Gallery as its own article

Thank you so much for creating this article on Bertha Schaefer! I've been researching several artist that her gallery represented in the 1960s, and have referenced my sources in order to add a "Gallery" section to the page. Here I've listed many of the artists in her stable, mentioned specific exhibitions, and described some of the artworks that she exhibited. Schaefer was an extremely active gallerists, in business for many decades, and I think there could certainly be a wikipedia article devoted entirely to the Bertha Schaefer Gallery if anyone wants to volunteer to start one. My research, however, pertains mostly to the 1960s, so I do not have the source material to establish comprehensive article that spans the tenure of her gallery. VitruvianWoman (talk) 16:56, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi VitruvianWoman! I wanted to write an article specifically on the gallery in 2020, but I couldn't find enough secondary sources to create one. It seems like you are not finding enough sources to create one either. I did create a redirect from "Bertha Schaefer Gallery" to this page. My experience is that art galleries (currently) fall under scrutiny because many current, active, galleries are creating "Puff Pieces" to use Wikipedia as an advertising vehicle (which it most certainly is not). I realize that isn't the case with Bertha Schaefer's ground-breaking gallery, but the sources aren't there. Let both keep an eye on the literature. Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:39, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi WomenArtistUpdates. I think there's a lot on her gallery, but it's mostly in print. Before Covid I was researching at the Archive of American Arts (NYC reading room), at the MoMA Archives, and at various museums libraries. Because I was researching specific artists, and had limited time, I only collected a handful of sources — but there's definitely more out there! Unfortunately, most of this material has not been digitized and is currently unavailable due to library closures. One digitized source I did have luck with is the New York Times "Times Machine" database. By searching for the gallery, and for the artists exhibiting there, one can many archived art reviews.

Schaefer's gallery also participated in Art Lending Library programs at the Museum of Modern Art in New York (MoMA ALS), and at the Albright Knox "Member's Gallery" in Buffalo where collectors could rent out contemporary artworks for 2-3 months and then op to purchase them. While I don't know that there are any secondary sources on these lending programs, looking through the museums archives is a good way to compile a list of artists she represented - whose names can be used as keywords to further research the gallery's program.

I see what you mean about the scrutiny around art galleries/gallerists on wiki. One example I came across, another woman-run NYC gallery of the era. is Eleanor Ward/Stable Gallery. There are two separate pages. But there are many female gallerists missing. Martha Jackson, who mounted the seminal New Forms — New Media show in 1960, is not on here at all. Her papers are archived at the University of Buffalo Art Galleries and her Collection is at the Albright Knox.

Thanks for making the redirect, I used it to link some of Bertha Schaefer's artists back to this page. And I'm totally new to wiki, so please bare with any clunky edits VitruvianWoman (talk) 19:50, 26 February 2021 (UTC).

Hi again WomenArtistUpdates! I just created an article for Irwin Rubin, one of Bertha Schaefer's artists. I know you mostly edit women artists' pages but please feel free to add to this one if you like. I'm still developing the teaching section and the page needs categories. I also plan to work on a Martha Jackson/Martha Jackson Gallery page in the coming weeks and would love to collaborate with you on that a well. VitruvianWoman (talk) 01:46, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi VitruvianWoman. I added an infobox and fair use image to Irwin Rubin. Interesting mid century New York artist! I like his work. If I have time I will try to find his exact birth and death dates, also it is always intriguing to find out if a man from this era was a WWII veteran and if so, whether he attended art school on the GI bill. Please feel free to ping me when you get going on Martha Jackson. Best, WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:07, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks WomenArtistUpdates! I still have to learn about images and how to add them. I have a scan from Arts Yearbook 7 of an image of Bertha Schaefer and her gallery director in her gallery, but I'm not sure if it's "fair use." I believe I saw Rubin's exact birth and/or death dates somewhere online, but I think it was a genealogy website and not necessarily a "reliable" source in wiki standards. If he was born in 1930 then he would have been only 15 at the end of WWII, too young to serve. I will gather a few more sources for the Martha Jackson article and update you when I get started. VitruvianWoman (talk) 20:29, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Hello, I discovered this discussion and I just want to say that I found the death date of Irwin Rubin from the New York Times and added it to the article. Ididntknowausername (talk) 00:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

VitruvianWoman I've only found one image of Schaefer online. Unfortunately Will Barnett dominates while Bertha is in the background. I am comfortable adding fair use images, so let me know if you have something better. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:48, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks you WomenArtistUpdates and Ididntknowausername! I haven't had a chance to look into a photo of Bertha Schaefer, but in the meantime I started an article about Martha Jackson — another female gallerist from NYC in the 1960s. The article is currently in my usersandbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:VitruvianWoman/sandbox. Please feel free to make edits or additions before I publish it!VitruvianWoman (talk) 13:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

VitruvianWoman I think you should move the Martha Jackson article to the main space now because then there will be a record of who made what edits when. I made a red link for it on Pop art under "Early U.S. exhibitions". Also, we can immediately create a redirect from "Martha Jackson" to Martha Jackson Gallery like we did for the Bertha Schaefer Gallery. Looks good! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice WomenArtistUpdates. I've moved the article to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Jackson VitruvianWoman (talk) 18:58, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Image of Bertha Schaefer

Hello again WomenArtistUpdates! I saw that the Irwin Rubin Archive posted a photo of Bertha Schaefer on social media and I wonder if the image would be considered fair for use on this wiki page. It was posted at https://www.instagram.com/irwinrubinarchive/ on October 5th and it's the second image in a multi-image post. There is, again, a man looming over her! But he's her gallery assistant, and could possible be cropped out? Again I don't have experience adding images to wiki or know which ones are considered fair use but I thought you might be interested in at least seeing this one. VitruvianWoman (talk) 15:02, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi VitruvianWoman! I don't have an account on Instagram, so I can't get to or see the photo :) The work-around that might work is, if you are able, go to the photo and pin it to the Women In Red pinterest section for October If you can do that, reply to this message and I will take a look at the photo on that site, download it and crop it and try to upload it as a fair use image. Thanks! Alternatively, we can contact the Irwin Rubin Archive and ask them if they would like to upload the image to her article. BEst. WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:18, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi WomenArtistUpdates, Well I guess we're in a bind because I don't have a pinterest account! I could either create a pinterest account an pin the image as you suggested, or I could upload the image directly to wikipedia myself. I'm just not sure how to determine if its considered a "fair use" image (it's from a magazine from the 1960s with no photo credit). I noticed you used an image from the Irwin Rubin Archive website in the Irwin Rubin wiki article. Did you need any sort of permission or clearance to do that? I have no experience adding images to wikipedia so if you can point me to any instructions or protocol I should follow I'd be happy to put it up. Alternately, if we cannot find a decent image of Bertha Schaefer herself, what about adding an image of her furniture design? There's a lot that comes up when one goggles her name. VitruvianWoman (talk) 01:57, 19 October 2021 (UTC)