Talk:Bieber (disambiguation)

Requested Move

{{movenotice}} It should be moved to the title Bieber (disambiguation) because it is a disambiguation page and is not listed as such. Thank you. Cyberdog958 (talk) 07:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Anti-bieber vandalism

Top line was vandalized to read: Bieber commonly refers to Justin Bieber (born 1994 - died 2011), Canadian gay "singer".

Someone vandalized it and after a user undid the edit, another restored the vandalized line. Ok, guys, seriously, do you think THIS is funny? (You probably do) We ALL get the fact that Justin Bieber is a complete d**chebag and can't even make one good song, but can we NOT insult him on any Bieber-related stuff on Wikipedia? Why can't you just do that on sites like Uncyclopedia or Encyclopedia Dramatica? And, NO, I do NOT like Justin Bieber! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.135.138 (talk) 00:01, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, lacking data showing the users looking for Justin are doing so by the name "Bieber" alone. Creating a redirect Bieber (singer) and using it on the dab page (only) to facilitate traffic stat collection later may sway subsequent discussions. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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Bieber → Bieber (disambiguation) – When people search for Bieber, they're looking for Justin Bieber. I believe that "Bieber" should redirect to his page and this page be moved to "Bieber (disambiguation)" GeicoHen (talk) 00:38, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose We generally don't do this for surnames that have lots of meanings to them. Several places are named Bieber and several people are named Bieber. Not justified. Plus, Justin Bieber has a special link on this page. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 01:11, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Strong support, there are no really notable competitors, and contrary to Taylor Trescott's argument we do indeed do this for surnames when the bearer of that surname is far, far more notable than all other uses put together (let's say, a handful of minor rivers and a couple of tiny towns). See Reagan, Stalin, Obama, Gretsky, Jágr, etc... most relevantly, see Hendrix, a very parallel situation. Red Slash 03:47, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
  • He's the most notable person with the surname, but seems less likely to be referred to by surname only than the examples you gave. Peter James (talk) 17:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Question It seems like a claim that might be true but do you have any data to back up the claim?--Labattblueboy (talk) 03:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - Why would anyone search "Bieber" for Justin Bieber? In print books "by Bieber" usually refers to the Austrian anthropologist Friedrich Bieber (1873-1925). In ictu oculi (talk) 08:33, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support per Red Slash. The singer is going to be the far and away WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the foreseeable future. --BDD (talk) 18:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose per IIO. As popular as he is when is he referred to as just Bieber rather than Justin Bieber? People like Reagan and Stalin are often referred to by their surname, this guy is not. Zarcadia (talk) 19:35, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Since most people know Justin Bieber's first name, I would seriously dispute that most people searching for his surname only are actually looking for him. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:33, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - Try to find one person who doesn't know that Reagan's first name was Ronald. --GeicoHen (talk) 08:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
  • The point is that Ronald Reagan is often known simply as "Reagan"; Justin Bieber is not usually known simply as "Bieber"! -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:51, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved and Bieber retargeted to Justin Bieber. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 09:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

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Bieber → Bieber (disambiguation) – Over the past 90 days, 877 people have viewed this disambiguation page. 848 of them then clicked on the link to Justin Bieber's article (the redirect Bieber (singer), which only appears on this disambiguation page). I'm pretty sure 848/877 (96%) satisfies our usage criteria to determine a primary topic, so I propose we move this article to a disambiguation page and redirect Bieber to Justin Bieber. (See also Gretsky, Hendrix, Jágr, etc...) --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 06:53, 4 November 2013 (UTC) Red Slash 02:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Comment, while on the face of it this is persuasive evidence, I always suspected the quality of stats is dubious. For example, on Oct 15, there were 57 hits for Bieber (singer), while on the same day there were only 29 hits for Bieber. Obviously, either A) something is very, very wrong with how the stats are collected or with our understanding of what they actually represent or B) not all of the traffic for Bieber (singer) came from the dab page. The same sort of phenomena can be seen quite markedly on Oct 8 and Oct 19 and on several other days to a lesser extent. older ≠ wiser 03:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

  PS, for what it's worth, Bieber (singer) now appears third in the drop-down list when searching for "bieber", so it is not at all unlikely that at least some portion of readers are getting to that redirect from places other than the disambiguation page. Not actually sure how much this changes the picture for the proposed move, since the overall figures are still telling, even if some portion must be discounted. older ≠ wiser 03:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

!! Wow. I never even considered that. Wow. I think you might be right. I completely forgot to consider that searches might take people to JB's page from Bieber (singer) without stopping by here first. Red Slash 21:40, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose - apples and oranges, Gretsky, Hendrix, Jágr, are debatable (personally I'm against all 3 being used in this way, since mononomymic usage is unsupported in reliable sources) but Bieber is not only not used as a mononym in reliable sources, it also has other uses - unlike Gretsky, California, River Hendrix, village Jágr. No one should write or link "Bieber" in an encyclopedia. Particularly when we have Christopher Bieber (born 1989), German footballer, David Bieber (born 1966), American convicted murderer, Frederick Bieber (born 1953), American medical geneticist, Friedrich Bieber (-1924), Austrian anthropologist in Ethiopia, Irving Bieber (1909–1971), American psychoanalyst, Jodi Bieber (born 1966), South African photographer, Margarete Bieber (1879–1978), German American art historian, Martin Bieber (1900–1974), German World War II officer, Matthias Bieber (born 1986), Swiss ice hockey player, Nita Bieber (born 1926), American actress, Owen Bieber (born 1929), American trade union president In ictu oculi (talk) 03:22, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

As for grokstats and page views.... If we follow these en.wikipedia will be a pop music blog with a bit of extra info about sport. Almost all Primary topics and all surnames will be pointing to the primary popstar. That is the meaning of "pop" = popular. Justin Bieber is more popular than rivers called Bieber, we know this. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

(ec) But consider this, the traffic for all of the "other" persons surnamed Bieber totaled 12,808 for the last 90 days. Justin had 1,420,937 views in the period. All the other entries on the disambiguation page totaled 3132 for the last 90 days. Taken together with the other surnames, that is 15940, which is about 90 times less that the traffic for Bieber. I'm ordinarily skeptical of placing too much emphasis on traffic stats, but this seems to pretty clearly surpass any reasonable threshold. older ≠ wiser 03:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support. Let's send the reader to the page he is most likely to be seeking in the simplest, most straightforward way we can. I don't believe in using disambiguation to render judgment on anyone's taste in music. The Viking (talk) 04:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC) !vote by community banned user struck. Favonian (talk) 18:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
• Speedy procedural close: We just discussed the same suggestion last month. Find something else to do, and try again in a year. There are some good reasons not to do this, e.g. per IIO and Necrothesp above. Maybe the discussion will tilt a different way someday as time moves forward, but we shouldn't be forced to constantly argue about it until opponents give up from sheer exhaustion. —BarrelProof (talk) 08:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I haven't changed my opinion from what I wrote above just over a month ago! -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
  • So you are still disputing, "that most people searching for his surname only are actually looking for him"? You know, this one is not a head scratcher. We have the capability to determine which sites people typing the search term "Bieber" are most likely to click on. Just click here and check the Google rankings. Every result on the first page refers to the singer. The Viking (talk) 17:27, 22 October 2013 (UTC) comment by community banned user struck. Favonian (talk) 18:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support For better or worse, Wikipedia is bound to follow the trends of other sources. Include a hatnote to Bieber (surname) and go shake your head or drink yourself silly. I'm afraid some editors are letting their personal opinions cloud their judgment in this matter. Banned or not, Kauffner makes sound points here. --BDD (talk) 22:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support. The evidence is decisive that people typing in or clicking on "Beiber" are looking for Justin.--Cúchullain ^t/c 23:09, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support the readers' usage, since that's what the primary topic is for. -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:18, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. I'll repeat what I said two months ago: "As popular as he is when is he referred to as just Bieber rather than Justin Bieber? People like Reagan and Stalin are often referred to by their surname, this guy is not.". Zarcadia (talk) 12:44, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
  • http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/27/repent-bieber-the-pope-just-cracked-10-million-twitter-followers/
  • http://www.today.com/tech/sorry-bieber-rihanna-most-viewed-artist-youtube-6C10378093
  • http://www.usatoday.com/videos/life/tv/2013/08/22/2684565/
  • http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/biebers-hair-needs-two-bodyguards/story-e6frfn09-1226033098171
  • http://wgno.com/2013/10/21/better-than-bieber-a-rockin-10-year-old-guitarist-2/#axzz2jJGLzwqN
  • http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2013/8/21/Bieber-Finally-Does-Something-Cool-With-His-458-Italia-7715841/

  --JHunterJ (talk) 14:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

  • No, that doesn't prove anything. News and media outlets often refer to people by their surnames only, particularly in headlines (since it's shorter and snappier). We do it ourselves in the body of an article. But the actual test is whether someone would refer to him as "Bieber" in normal conversation. Would they say "I'm going to see Bieber"? No, I very much doubt it. They'd say "I'm going to see Justin Bieber". But would people say "during Reagan's presidency" or "during Stalin's rule"? Yes, they most certainly would. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:59, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

    I can certainly conceive of someone saying "I'm going to a Bieber concert," though I admit this is entirely speculative because I don't know anyone who would do such a thing. I'll concede that newspaper usage is often done for the sake of convenience, but I think that usage makes surnames a likely search term. --BDD (talk) 16:09, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

    I am not surprised that any evidence that Bieber is referred to as "Bieber" doesn't meet your threshold for "counting", and any further examples will just cause the threshold to move, but the examples refute your claim regardless. Or, yes, it does prove something. In fact, news and media outlets (aka "reliable sources") count for more than just "people". And even then, you are wrong that people don't say "I'm going to see Bieber!" instead of "I'm going to see Justin Bieber!". Yes, they most certainly would.[1] -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

That link didn't work for me, though it looks fine. "I'm going to see Bieber" should work. Oddly enough, the first hit is wrong, but the rest back you up. --BDD (talk) 16:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Fixed (URI encoding). -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:33, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

• Support. In another ten or twenty years, when interest has faded from the teenage star, things may be different, but at present it is quite clear what people searching for "Bieber" are overwhelmingly likely to be looking for. older ≠ wiser 16:23, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
• Support, for all the reasons given in support above. Primary meanings can change over time; as it stands, the singer is primary for this term. bd2412 T 13:39, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support. I personally oppose this for style reasons but it certainly meets the primary topic yard(0.914m)sticks. I applaud the nominator for using the redirect Bieber (singer) to test the percentage of users seeking the singer. If the superfluous Bieber (surname) article is merged with the disambiguation page, few users will have to click any more than they do now. —  AjaxSmack  23:52, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

• Support - I'm of the view that this is a primary topic. When you say Bieber to a person in the street across the US, Canada and UK, they will mostly think of Justin. And the facts about the page views confirm this.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:52, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Primary topic. Wbm1058 (talk) 00:48, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Primary phrasing

Even though we usually link to the base name, even if it's a redirect, we opt for the person's name instead for surnames like this. See MOS:DABPRIMARY and Mozart (disambiguation). -- JHunterJ (talk) 18:39, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

• @JHunterJ: thanks for pointing that out. I thought the accepted standard for MOS:DAB was to always have the redirect in the opening statement; I was not aware that the standard was different when the term is a redirect that refers to a person. Thanks again for the info: I'm going to revert my edit. Steel1943 (talk) 19:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

  Sure. I rather prefer the way you phrased it, but I'm willing to go along with broader consensus. :-) -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:20, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

• @JHunterJ: I preferred it that way too. :) I edited the opening sentence again, bringing back the wording that I used but moved the link. Steel1943 (talk) 19:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Merge

Hi, so I merged the very short Bieber (surname) disambiguation page (~12 entries) onto this page so that those typing in "bieber" would only have to make one click from this disambiguation page to find the person they were looking for. User:JHunterJ reverted and I'm not sure why. How does it help readers to hide the surnames on yet another disambiguation page when adding them here does not add an unwieldy amount of entries to the article? I'd love to know. Red Slash 00:56, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Bieber (surname) isn't a disambiguation page, but a surname list article. User:Xezbeth split it from the disambiguation page back in February. This page, disambiguating "Bieber", wouldn't include those name-holders who aren't commonly referred to by just the surname -- those are just partial title matches. If you want to dig into it deeper, there's Wikipedia:WikiProject Anthroponymy/Home backup#Background reading. -- JHunterJ (talk) 02:40, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

So then, what, should I take it to AFD? It's pointless for that article to exist since it has no encyclopedic reason for being other than a list of names. It serves as a disambiguation page. Red Slash 05:15, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

If you think that the surname is not encyclopedic, then yes, it would go to PROD or AfD or wherever. It doesn't serve as a disambiguation page, since disambiguation pages aren't lists of partial title matches. -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:36, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 29 December 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus is that the Canadian singer Justin is the primary topic for the name Bieber; therefore, this will remain with (disambiguation) in the title. (non-admin closure) JudgeRM (talk to me) 19:38, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

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Bieber (disambiguation) → Bieber – Not the only "Bieber" that exists. Retarget to Bieber (disambiguation). KATMAKROFAN (talk) 19:46, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This discussion was moved here from Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 December 29#Bieber since this is technically a move request per WP:DABNAME. Steel1943 (talk) 19:57, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Pinging KATMAKROFAN to let them know this discussion has moved here. Steel1943 (talk) 19:58, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

• What has changed since the last move request? Gorobay (talk) 20:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose - notwithstanding the previous discussion, some page-hit statistics from topics on the disambiguation page in the 90 days preceding this edit:

• Justin Bieber - 1,757,288
• (all other links combined) - 3,544

And from Bieber (surname):

• Justin Bieber - 1,757,288
• David Bieber - 15,450
• (all other links combined) - 5,215

It's pretty clear that the Canadian pop singer is the primary topic for people and things named "Bieber". Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:20, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. Even if we assume that 100% of the 1,465 page views in the 90 days to 29 December for the Bieber redirect were from people who wanted a different topic (extremely unlikely) then Justin Bieber is still the primary topic by at least two orders of magnitude (according to Ivanvector's stats). Thryduulf (talk) 02:29, 31 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. Even as someone who is very definitely not a Justin Bieber fan, I can see that he is the primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rcat shell

Why are you tryong to be a copy cat Yanela zulu n 07:39, 11 June 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yanela zulu n (talk • contribs)