Talk:Big Three (automobile manufacturers)

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"While BMW produce better vehicles than Volkswagen" This is ridiculous, and a simple "citation needed" won't quite fix the problem IMHO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.39.164.122 (talk) 12:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

You could also mention the tendency of car producers to be organized in Big Threes: Italian big supercars three: Ferrari,Lamborghini,Maserati (also FIAT's three ordinary marques: FIAT,Alfa-Romeo,Lancia): British big "traditionalist" luxurious three: Rolls-Royce,Bentley,Aston Martin; Iranian big three: Iran Khodro,Saipa,Morattab; Indian big three: Tata,Mahindra,Maruti; the not-so-clear-now South Korean big three: Hyundai,Kia,Daewoo. Daewoo can be changed to SsangYong.

Ref moves at the end of "US" section

I read through every ref. NONE had to do with leasing. All but 2 had to do with closing factories, so I moved them to the previous statement. The remaining 2 were bogus: 1 was a blank template and another was a list of articles tagged with "Ford Escape." ɯɐʇsnɾı (talk) 04:46, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

American vs. North American

There seems to be a dispute that the Big Three auto manufacturers should be labeled as "North American" rather than "American" or "US", to encompass Canada. General Motors Canada, for example, is owned wholly by the US-originating General Motors Corporation. The same goes for Chrysler; and Ford is a multionational company. Thus IMO these auto manufacturers should be labeled as "American" or "US", but an editor User:Ckatz, seems to disagree with this assertion and would like the term "North American" to be used as a label. If anyone else could comment it would be appreciated.— ^{`</sup>CRAZY`(lN)`SANE<sup>`} 01:21, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Beg to differ, but you are the one who removed the details, without a decent rationale. I'm also not the only person adding "North American", while you seem to be the only one removing it. If you'd care to provide a good argument as to why an auto industry with large-scale operations in Ontario and Quebec is somehow not "North American", please do. Otherwise, I'd ask that you desist with the efforts to strip out references to Canada from various articles. --Ckatz^chat_spy 03:53, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not trying to "strip out Canadian references" in articles just for the sake of doing so, I'm removing references to Canada where they are not warranted. GM, Ford and Chrysler are clearly notable as "US automakers" or "American automakers", and are rarely if ever noted as "North American", and certainly never as "Canadian automakers". Notice how Toyota is always noted as a "Japanese" auto manufacturer (including in this article), regardless of prominent and important non-Japanese subsidiaries such as Toyota USA or Toyota Canada Inc.. The same should be obvious for US-originating automakers, regardless of Canadian subsidiaries. You mention large-scale Big Three operations in Ontario and Quebec... Toyota has large-scale international operations as well, but is Toyota labeled as a "Japanese/*insert country here*" car manufacturer? No. Why should this be any different for the US Big Three? Because Canada is geographically nearby and GM Canada is wholly owned by GM Corp.? What's the argument? Also, the section "United States and Canada" links to a main article of Automobile industry in the United States. No reason for "and Canada" to be in the heading at all. I just don't see the argument for calling these "North American" manufacturers... aren't Cuba and Mexico in North America as well? — ^{`</sup>CRAZY`(lN)`SANE<sup>`} 05:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

GM North America

North American International Auto Show

The North American Auto Industry (Institute for Research on Public Policy)

Globalization Now: The North American Auto Industry Goes South

Crisis in the North American Automotive Industry – Weathering the Storm

--Ckatz^chat_spy 08:30, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

That's your argument? I can cite many more refs (reputable news sources) that use "US", "United States" and/or "American" in place of "North American". As I mentioned in one of my earlier diffs for this article, "US auto industry" gets much more search hits than "North American auto industry" — no competition. Also, perhaps most importantly, many Canadian news sources use "US auto industry" or some variant thereof: [1][2][3]. I see no valid argument to label the Detroit Big Three as "North American" vs. "US American"; can anyone show me why we should?— ^{`</sup>CRAZY`(lN)`SANE<sup>`} 08:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm responding to a request for a third opinion. At first thought, I would say that North American sounds more accurate, but after realising that many foreign companies (foreign to the U.S. or Canada, that is) have large operations in the U.S. and they are not labelled as American, clearly the big three should be described as "U.S." or "American". — D. Wo. 21:24, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for joining discussion. I've removed references to "North American" in terms of the origin/nature of the Big Three companies, but have left other references to Canada as they are relevant.— ^{`</sup>CRAZY`(lN)`SANE<sup>`} 02:00, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks as well. However, per recent events, I have restored "North American" to the lead sentence, given that GM ownership is to be divided up amongst the US and Canadian governments, and the UAW. With Chrysler's ownership in flux, "North American" also better reflects the primary operations of the companies. Thoughts? --Ckatz^chat_spy 19:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm just noticing your comment now, Ckatz. I understand that you are of the opinion that "North American" should be used, but you did not receive consensus so should not have changed it, nor reverted me when I reverted your change. I would think that you should see the talk pages for GM, Ford and Chrysler and discuss at those pages whether "North American" has merit before adding that here. Currently, all three of those articles use simply "American" as the descriptor, so it should be used here as well for the time being, as that was the consensus reached from the third opinion I requested here in May 2009. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 06:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Operations are throughout North America, North American auto pact, GM is part-owned by the Canadian and Ontario governments. Honestly, you're the only one who's insisting on changing it, as the article has said "North American" for a long time. (If no-one else has considered changing it is almost four months, that suggests acceptance.) --Ckatz^chat_spy 16:45, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment: "North American" vs. "American"

There has been an ongoing dispute at this article regarding whether GM, Ford and Chrysler should be labeled as "American" (as in United States) or "North American" (to encompass Canada) automakers. Although the dispute is mainly between two editors (myself and Ckatz), I am skipping the third opinion request as this has already been done previously and was unsuccessful in permanently resolving the dispute.

As GM is now part-owned by the Canadian and Ontario governments (an event that occurred post-third opinion request), Ckatz feels that it is now appropriate that the "North American" label be used. I disagree, as the respective articles for not only General Motors, but also Chrysler and Ford Motor Company, all use a variant of the "American" descriptor. Until consensus is made at all three of those articles to change to a "North American" descriptor, I feel that this label would be inappropriate and misleading at the Big Three (automobile manufacturers) article.

For all responding to this RfC, please see the above section as well for more information about the dispute. Thank you. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 17:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

The term American should continue to be used. While the ownership and locations of many of the plants may be partially Canadian, the current state of these companies is clearly the consequence of an American ownership and culture. Separate from that, I think that company should be described by the country the headquarters are located in. As and example Saab is owned by one of the big three, and it is still called a Swedish car company. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 23:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

It should be Niorth American, since the three were subject to the Auto Pact, a binational treaty dealing with solely them. 76.66.197.30 (talk) 03:17, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

It depends on what you, guys, wish to describe here. English Wikipedia is not used only by English native speakers, so think about what North America means. For example, in Europe, North America is considered a subcontinent including Canada, US, and Mexico, too.
Anyhow, I do not think that GM will be perceived as a Canadian brand despite the ownership structure. Opel has always been perceived as a German automaker.
(Rgvis (talk) 19:01, 12 October 2009 (UTC))

Japan and Germany

I do not think that Japan and Germany should not be part of this article. The term "Big Three" is an expression that references GM, Ford and Chrysler. The reference to the large manufactures of other countries is more like a use of the phrase as opposed to an actual "Big Three in those countries" I suggest that there be articles specifically for the manufactures of those countries. Elmmapleoakpine (talk) 23:56, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

That makes no sense. Until this article I didn't even realise that there was a US version of this term. Don't assume just because your american the sense you heard the term is the only one that counts. 59.167.111.154 (talk) 20:24, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

No other independent car makers?

"There have been no independent car makers other than Ford, GM, and Chrysler since the last independent automaker, American Motors, was bought by Chrysler in 1987."

What about Tesla? Even though Daimler acquired a stake, weren't they independent at the beginning? --GentlemanGhost (talk) 03:56, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

What is meant by American Automaker

I believe there should be more clarity about what makes an automaker American. Does it mean headquartered in the US? Does it mean the majority of shareholders are US or shares are traded exclusively in the US stock market? Does it mean the majority of employees are in the US? What does it mean? Instead of referring to the Big Three as American Automakers the article should be more specific, for example, automakers based in the US (though even that is a little vague, as these are multinationals with headquarters in other countries). In my personal opinion, the reason that these three companies are the Big Three is historical and not based on present-day business organization. Rlitwin (talk) 20:14, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

@Rlitwin:To me this means that a majority of the shares are held by Americans and that a majority of the employees are Americans. 2600:6C64:507F:E6E1:1970:DD86:B8C5:C5BF (talk) 16:45, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't think Chrysler is one of the U.S. Big Three longer, as Chrysler is surpassed as the third-largest American automaker by Toyota of America since 2002 or 2003, and by 2008 Chrysler was even surpassed by American Honda as the fourth-largest.

Officially, the Big Three of the U.S. are General Motors, Ford and Toyota of America. 90.231.234.93 (talk) 21:41, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

“Officially”? 73.201.172.195 (talk) 09:31, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Indeed I am baffled to see Stellantis listed as an American company, while it's a multinational company with headquarters based in Netherlands.

I believe it should mention Chrysler, as a historical Big 3, but Stellantis shouldn't be listed as one of the American Big 3. Joyfik (talk) 19:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

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Alphabetical order

Since the current order of the countries don't make any sense I have changed them to alphabetical order. Please comment here before you want to revert the change as this keeps things organized and clear. TheMuurtje (talk) 11:11, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Chinese EV context

I think NIO, XPeng and Li Auto are considered by medias to be Big Three in Chinese electric automakers context or startup Chinese automakers context. Some medias considered NIO, XPeng and BYD. --Love Krittaya (talk) 06:36, 27 February 2022 (UTC)