Talk:Bill Smith (underwater surveyor)

Long delay in moving Draft to Mainspace

Having responded to suggestions for improvement re sources, there has been a long delay in moving from draft to Mainspace. Can anyone help? Nigel PG Dale 09:07, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that this looks like it could be a POV fork from Bluebird K7. The draft almost gives undue weight to that venture. —C.Fred (talk) 21:32, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Locating, recovering and rebuilding Bluebird K7 from 1996-2024 has been a decades-long endeavour. Of course that is going to feature strongly in WHS's biography. Nigel PG Dale 06:31, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Major Edit

Underwater searches which might be considered as unimportant have been summarised in the opening paragraphs, leading to removal of bullet pointers. Major well publicised and cited remain. This is in response to criticism over "promotional" and indirect references in citations. I hope that, in this form, the article can be published without further review.Nigel PG Dale 15:07, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

The draft was rejected it won't be reviewed again. Theroadislong (talk) 15:19, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Are you saying that this page should be abandoned? If so, it would be on the basis of a purely subjective view Nigel PG Dale 18:47, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

It was rejected based on Wikipedia guidelines that are objective. Theroadislong (talk) 20:22, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Possible Typo

In the very first paragraph should there be a space between “engined” and “hydroplane”? If so, I don’t know how to add the space there.

Thanks, I sorted that to "jet-engined hydroplane"Nigel PG Dale 10:41, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

It's irrelevant, the draft has been rejected it will not be reviewed again. Theroadislong (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

In order for a source to contribute to notability it needs to meet all four criteria: reliable, secondary, independent and have in-depth coverage about the subject (Smith, the person) and multiple are needed. Below is the source assessment:

1. Guardian - reliable source, but not in-depth about Smith; only a couple mentions
2. In-Depth Magazine - makes no mention of Smith
3. Kea Underwater Historical Site - scuba diving/tourist company, not a reliable source and only a mention of Smith anyway
4. Same as 1
5. BBC - reliable source but is he said/she said between Smith and the Campbell family so mostly a primary source and not independent (relies mostly on what they say) which cannot be used to establish notability
6. The Bluebird Years - appears to have in-depth coverage about Smith but published by a niche independent publisher that focuses on regional walking and cycling guides and local interest books so reliability questionable for historical topics. In general the community has dismissed such sources as far as establishing notability (similar to Arcadia Publishing)
7. K7 Recovery - a blog so not a reliable source, see WP:self-published
8. Campbell Family Heritage Trust - another WP:self-published source and makes no mention of Smith anyway

At best there is maybe one usable source, the book, but that is not enough to meet the notability criteria. What I suggest is setting this aside. If additional sources become available later (could be months or years), you can pick it back up. If it is deleted in the meantime as an abandoned draft which generally occurs after six months of no human edits, you can request it be restored (you will get message with instructions). S0091 (talk) 15:42, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

What we can do in the interim is create a WP:redirect (search term) to Bluebird K7#Recovery. However, currently his middle name is unsourced (where did that info come from, same with date of birth?) and his WP:COMMONNAME is Bill. We can't do Bill Hammerton Smith or use the date of birth to disambiguate without a reliable source supporting it. The other thought is Bill Smith (scuba diver).S0091 (talk) 17:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and created the redirect using Bill Smith (scuba diver), added it to Bill Smith and renamed to the draft to match. S0091 (talk) 20:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I have made a number of changes in order to address your concerns here. The use of "Bill Smith (scuba diver) as a means to disambiguate is a good idea. However, use of Bill Smith's full name and date of birth is a matter of public record, I have cited a Gov.UK source. Most of the above sources have become irrelevant as the article has been condensed. "Kea Underwater Historical Site" has been deleted and replaced by a web-magazine article. Nigel PG Dale 10:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Alternative citation added (with the former Campbell Family Heritage Trust citation removed) sourced: "Campbell, Gina Leatherhead & District Local History Society Archive. Nigel PG Dale 12:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)