Talk:Billy Williams

Title

I see that this was moved in December 2007 from Billy Williams (baseball player); as the umpire of the same name qualifies for an article, perhaps this should be moved back? (Actually, since there was another Billy Williams who played briefly as a right fielder for the 1969 Pilots, perhaps this should be moved to Billy Williams (left fielder).) MisfitToys (talk) 23:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is very clear: "A topic is primary for a term, with respect to usage, if it is highly likely—much more likely than any other topic, and more likely than all the other topics combined—to be the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." (emphasis mine) I make no judgment on whether the disambiguating parenthetical should be changed, as suggested by User:Transaspie. I expect that as long as it follows WP:NC-BASE, that move would be uncontroversial. Aervanath (talk) 19:22, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

---

• Billy Williams (left fielder) → Billy Williams
• Billy Williams → Billy Williams (disambiguation)

– According to stats.grok.se, the left fielder's page is currently viewed about four-to-six times more than any other page on a person simply named Billy Williams. (2,055 times for the LF in Oct. '11, next closest is the singer (572), whose page views spiked that month on the anniversary of his death, then the music hall performer at 320, and everybody else is under 200) Since the left fielder is a Hall of Fame baseball player, and since Billy Dee Williams very rarely goes by just Billy Williams, the left fielder seems worthy of being the primary topic. Transaspie (talk) 06:24, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

• Weak oppose - I usually support only if one topic gets twice as many views as all the others combined

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (left fielder) 1921

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (cricketer) 140

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (basketball) 183

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (right fielder) 208

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (umpire) 96

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (cinematographer) 281

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (singer) 414

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (music hall performer) 390

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (Coronation Street) 177

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (footballer born 1876) 147

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (footballer born 1905) 247

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (rugby player) 213

http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Billy Williams (rugby) 160

• Weak oppose - he is only getting about 40% of the page views not counting redlinks, Dee and Drease.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Billy Williams is the ball player's only common name and the logical lemma for his article. No one else on the list is a plausible primary topic. Google "Billy Williams" -wikipedia and the ball player is the top referent. He gets almost seven times as many page views as the cinematographer, who is the No. 2 referent. Right now, the DAB is primary. Who thinks that's the most likely desired topic? Kauffner (talk) 10:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
• Support for the reasons stated by Transaspie and Kauffner. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
• Support per Transaspie and Kauffner. The left fielder (which isn't an ideal dab since he also played other positions) gets roughly 5x the hits as the next highest, so is clearly the primary topic. Rlendog (talk) 19:54, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Primary use clearly means that this is the most likely to be searched for. With only 40% of the hits, he is not even getting the majority of the hits, much less then required to establish a primary use. If left fielder is not a good dab, select another. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:54, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
  • Didn't realize there was a 50% rule. My opinion still stands because I don't really agree with it in a situation like this, but let's not argue the point. If we need a compromise, I'll say that I think that Billy Williams should be considered an outfielder rather than a left fielder, which would force the right fielder to also be considered an outfielder, allowing us to use step four of WP:NC-BASE. For this, the left fielder becomes "Billy Williams (Chicago Cubs outfielder)" and the right fielder becomes "Billy Williams (Seattle Pilots outfielder)". Yes, the Cub also played for the Oakland Athletics, but he is very famous as a Cub. Would that work or would that be a violation of the naming conventions? -- Transaspie (talk) 06:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC) (P.S. If it works, should I submit a move request for the right fielder to move to the (Seattle Pilots outfielder) page to fully accomplish this?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Transaspie (talk • contribs) 06:57, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Billy Williams (left fielder). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://archive.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/09/billy-williams-statue-unveiled-during-ceremonies.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051127013018/http://www.baseballlibrary.com:80/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/W/Williams_Billy219.stm to http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/ballplayers/W/Williams_Billy219.stm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051209002127/http://www.hardballtimes.com:80/main/printarticle/the-williams-santo-cubs-1961-1965/ to http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/printarticle/the-williams-santo-cubs-1961-1965

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:13, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 23 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Consensus is that the left fielder is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Cúchullain ^t/c 17:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

---

• Billy Williams (left fielder) → Billy Williams
• Billy Williams → Billy Williams (disambiguation)

– This article was originally at Billy Williams (baseball player), but it’s not possible to get to the article through the search bar through Billy Williams (baseball) or Billy Williams (baseball player) anymore because of Billy Williams (right fielder). Currently, Billy Williams (left fielder) is extremely hard to find on the disambiguation page. Further, readers who know they are looking for a baseball outfielder may not know whether the Hall of Famer is the right fielder or the left fielder. Despite this, the article gets about 70% of total hits over an extended period, ten times more than the next most-visited article: [1]. (This analysis includes the 10 most-visited Billy Williams.) The article also received over 65% of total hits in the least active period, eliminating all spikes: [2]. A move request several years ago pegged the number at closer to 40%, and failed on those grounds alone. The current numbers would have addressed the concerns of all of the opposers in the previous discussion, according to their rationales, as well as the WP:PTOPIC reading of the closer. The appearance of being the primary topic is not due to recentism, either, since the player has been retired since 1976 and in the Hall of Fame since 1987. Dekimasuよ! 17:22, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Good grief. There are zillions of Billy Williams. It will not kill baseball fans - a sport barely played outside Japan and the US - to have (baseball) on this baseball player just like most others. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:41, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support It seems clear that Billy Williams (left fielder) is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. As one (strong) piece of evidence for this you can see from a page view analysis that Left Fielder Williams far surpasses over any time frame available the next 9 with the most views. Despite how many Billy Williams there are policy does seem to support having Left Fielder Billy Williams as Billy Williams and a disambiguation page showing the others as suggested by nom. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
• Pinging editors from the previous request: Transaspie, TonyTheTiger, Baseball Bugs, Rlendog, Vegaswikian, Mark Schierbecker. Dekimasuよ! 20:00, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support - per PRIMRYTOPIC. While I would be OK with Billy Williams (baseball) per In ictu oculi that then becomes an incomplete disambiguation which I have no problem with (since this Billy Williams is very obviously the primary topic among baseball Billy Williamses) but others do which leads us to the ridiculousness of using "left fielder" as the disambiguator, even though he played other positions and even that is better than other sub-baseball alternatives like Billy Williams (baseball player born in 1938 who threw with his right hand and batted left). Rlendog (talk) 22:40, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Sorry I was late. I think this was a mistake. I think the HOF baseball player only gets a little over half of the page views. He gets a large percent of the page views from the limited list of alternate search terms. However, when you add all the alternate search terms such as this and this, it seems he only gets about 50-60% of the page views.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:35, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

• The links you gave for 2017 still yield 69.5% for me: 42,321 for the player, 17,645 for the others you've listed–and that's for the period when this Billy Williams had the lowest number of views. The link for the full period I gave above showed 69.7%. I had 65% for the lowest number I gave above, which is about twice as many as all the other articles combined. Am I missing something? Dekimasuよ! 01:53, 7 August 2018 (UTC)