Talk:Bird flight

Misleading illustration

Wing shapes

I see some issues with the illustration on the right:

• the flight of the albatross is characterized as "slowgliding/soaring". In reality, albatrosses are some of the fastest soaring birds.
• the aspect ratio the albatross silhouette is significantly below the wings of real albatrosses. (compare with this Black-browed Albatross])
• the wing of an actual eagle is much broader than in the image. (compare this bald eagle)
• the silhouette of the falcon does not resemble a falcon at all (compare this peregrin falcon)
• the crow is no better (compare this crow)
• the heads of all birds are exaggerated in size

In addition, the silhouettes are neither in correct relative scale. The span of an albatross is about ten times the span of a crow. Nor are they scaled to some common size, E.g. the body size, or wing span. ---<)kmk(>- (talk) 02:35, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I recognized the falcon silhouette as a falcon at a glance, so it is not true that it doesn't look like a falcon at all. Peregrines are not the only falcons. They have for example a relatively short tail for a falcon, so it's probably not a peregrine that stood model for this one.  Wikiklaas  23:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Hovering

The article states that "The largest bird able to truly hover is the pied kingfisher ...", but I've seen much larger White Tailed Kites hovering for 30 seconds or so, and I've seen Osprey's hovering for a few seconds before diving into the water. Since both birds are ground targeting when hovering, they tend to hover at a fixed location in the air, despite any wind. Rcgldr (talk) 07:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

These are due to headwinds - although the bird's ground speed is zero, there is an appreciable air speed due to the wind. True hovering is the ability to maintain a fixed position in still air, without the assistance of wind. Just above anything can hover in sufficiently fast wind, and fast enough wind can even lift parked small aircraft off the ground. HCA (talk) 22:51, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Video of a white tailed Kite performing at a show, hovering in still air (no headwind) during a demonstration, despite the relatively heavy tether attached to it's legs (the demonstration starts at 1:10 into the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnbndA0Rjfg

I live in southern California and fly radio control gliders as a hobby. One of the locations I visit is Kite Hill, the location and nearby community named after the white tailed Kite. I have personally witnessed a Kite hovering against a slight tailwind (so technically hovering and flying backwards) for over 20 seconds. Normally the wind comes from the south, blowing up the hill, but in this case, the wind was coming from the north due to a "Santa Ana" condition. I assume that Kite was used to being oriented downhill, despite the tailwind condition. In near zero wind conditions, I've seen Kites hover for over 30 seconds.

I've also seen Osprey's at nearby Laguna Beach, also hovering in near zero wind conditions (no perceptible cross wind or updraft), but they normally only hover for a few seconds before diving. Unlike a Kite, the Ospreys apparently sight fish near the ocean surface during normal flight or partial hover, and my guess is they hover only long enough to get a fix on the fish and setup a dive. It appears they could hover for longer, as they have more than enough energy to dive underwater, use their wings to resurface out of the water and either fly away with a fish or fly back to their hunting altitude which is around 80 feet at this particular location.

In both cases, but more impressive with the Kites due to their longer hover times is that since they target a ground object during a hover, they remain nearly motionless relative to the ground despite any wind. In the case of white tailed Kites, their particular style of hovering is called "kiting". white_tailed_kite Rcgldr (talk) 08:07, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Fascinating, I had no idea they could do this. I think this video would be a suitable WP:RS for adding kites to the list of hovering birds. HCA (talk) 15:37, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Other than the bird experts or people like me who live in areas where where this can be observed, you wouldn't know. The birds will take advantage of a head wind if present, using much less energy than a true hover, but as the bird experts point out, these birds have to be able to hunt and feed in low or zero wind conditions. I'm going to search for more references, but many of the references and videos include headwind flight as "hovering", which may be why the birder term "Kiting" is used for Kites to make it clear what is going on. Finding references or videos (with no wind indicators, such as a flag), for the Ospreys will be more difficult (there's no special term for an Osprey hover). Rcgldr (talk) 20:51, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

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development of flight in juvenile birds

@HCA: @Rcgldr: I was checking out this article hoping to learn about some of the developmental stages of bird flight during the juvenile development of birds. Could we consider a section on this? Edaham (talk) 02:53, 24 December 2017 (UTC)