Talk:Bjeshkët e Nemuna National Park

Bjeshkët e Nemuna National Park

@Iaof2017: thank you for the clarification. The area of this park is not in the transboundary region which is near the Hoti village in Plav.--Maleschreiber (talk) 22:15, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

The clarification was necessary. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate that.--Lorik17 (talk) 20:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Nemuna or Namuna?

All sources in the article, as well as the significant majority of internet sources, refer to the mountain range as "Bjeshkët e Nemuna", rather than "Bjeshkët e Namuna", so I'm disinclined to take 40-year old Albanian Encyclopedic Dictionary quoted by Kj1595 as the ultimate source for the name. Albanian wiki article is at sq:Parku Kombëtar Bjeshkët e Nemuna; all 24 revisions of OpenStreetMap relation [1] refer to it as "Bjeshkët e Nemuna".

Actually, I found an extensive article in telegrafi that addresses the matter:

Botimi i ri i FESH (2008), ka ndryshime të dukshme në këtë zë. Qysh në fillim bie në sy një saktësim fonetik. Nuk quhen më “Bjeshkë të Namuna”, por “Bjeshkë të Nemuna”.

Translation: The new edition of FESH (2008), has significant changes in this item. From the very beginning, a phonetic precision is noticeable. They are no longer called "Bjeshke te Namuna", but "Bjeshke te Nemuna".

In any case, I plan to move the article back to the original name, and request a formal RM to settle the matter. No such user (talk) 07:57, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Perikli Qiriazi, one of the co-authors of the book "Physical Geography of Albania" (Gjeografia Fizike e Shqipërisë), published by the Academy of Sciences in collaboration with the Institute of Geography, refers to the region as Bjeshkët e Namuna. He is used as a source in this US military country study on Albania. Kj1595 (talk) 08:07, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not saying it's never used, but it is used far less than the "Nemuna" spelling. The article quotes the bylaw of establishment of the park by the Kosovo Assembly [2], referring to it as Bjeshkët e Nemuna. I would take that as a quite definitive. In any case, we ought to at least mention the alternative spelling in the articles. No such user (talk) 08:27, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I am fine with this wording being used in Kosovo related articles. In Albania proper, Namuna is the form used. The gheg variant Namuna has been preserved in this case and this is how it's used in geography textbooks.

This mountain range, where it got its name from, resides mainly in Albania. Important to keep this in mind. Kj1595 (talk) 16:58, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah I understand now, it's a Gheg/Tosk variation. In the meantime, RoyalHeritageAlb has updated Accursed Mountains [3] but to a third variant, "Nëmuna". I don't speak Albanian (but know the basics), so can you guys align first and explain the situation at Accursed Mountains#Name? Again, the sq wiki article is at sq:Parku Kombëtar Bjeshkët e Nemuna, with a plain ⟨e⟩, and that ⟨ë⟩ looks like an error to me. No such user (talk) 07:24, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

The word Nëm means curse. In standart Albanian. The word in standart albanian is Nëmuna (in maps you can read it also as Nemuna just because when we type online in albanian we usually completely ignore the ë and write it as e). But on the local gheg dialect at the location of the place of this article is Namuna. I dont know if we should put the standart albanian one or the dialectal albanian native name. But if its the standart at least we should write it properly as Nëmuna. RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 13:53, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

"Bjeshkët e Nëmuna" should be used. It is the standard Albanian version and the one I found in English sources such as BBC. In Gheg both "Namuna" and "Nëmuna" are used, not only "Namuna". "Nemuna" is used by those who are lazy or do not know how to type "ë". Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm uncomfortable to argue with native speakers, but the Kosovo Assembly bylaw [4] carefully uses ⟨ë⟩ throughout and correctly spells Bjeshkët, yet it also consistently uses "Nemuna" throughout. Same for https://accursed-mountains.me/sq/, an EU-sponsored project, and many other sites. It's too frequent to be explained out by laziness. In fact, I cannot find a single source, reliable or not, which uses the Nëmuna spelling; (this guy, apparently a local guide, mixes "Namuna" and "Nemuna" but never "Nëmuna"). Something does not compute here. No such user (talk) 08:22, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

...and so does every single book in sight. No such user (talk) 08:27, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Good point, "e Nëmuna" is very rarely used [5][6]. The issue of the name has been analyzed there and it seems that "Bjeshkët e Nemuna" is just a poetic name rather than one used historically used by Albanian speakers. In other words, it seems that some Albanians made a translation of the original Slavic name and stylized it as "Bjeshkët e Nemuna" and that is used instead of the standard Albanian one. Then "Bjeshkët e Nemuna" should be used. Ktrimi991 (talk) 10:34, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Excellent find, thanks! Someone (TM) should incorporate it in the article. No such user (talk) 13:08, 11 May 2023 (UTC)