Talk:Black Rock, Buffalo

Edits of Jan 1 2013

A listing of local businesses is against the policy WP:NOTDIR. The only time you list local businesses is when they are notable on their own. Burger King, a regional supermarket chain, and a local bar are not. Every major city has at least one bar that books prominent acts, but the only thing we have showing that this bar does is your word. Even properly referenced, it is doubtful that the bar would rise to the level of being encyclopedic. The only reference you have for any of this is a blog review of the bar. Blogs are not WP:RS.

Articles on Wikipedia are to be written for a world audience, not for the community the article is about. Do you really think any of what you added today would be of interest to someone in Chicago? (keeping in mind WP:NOTTRAVEL). The only thing you added that might have the potential for being encyclopedic is the bar; and the only way I can see that would be notable is if that is where Buffalo Wings were first served.Gtwfan52 (talk) 06:14, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

I desired to put some content describing the neighborhood. Amherst Street is notable for the progress made over a short period of time in that business district especially when compared to the decline of the Tonawanda Street business district in the neighborhood bordering it to the north. Perhaps I should have stressed that in my entry.

I do not think that every part of an article has to be notable. The total content makes the subject of the article notable. I certainly think a brief description of the content of the Amherst Street business district belongs in the article. I have read WP:NOTDIR and cannot find that mentioning local businesses is a violation.

With regard to Sportsmen's the citation I used is from a local paper that is distributed free in the downtown area of Buffalo and on the internet which makes it more than a blog. The Buffalo News is difficult to use as a source because one has to pay for the privelige of reading its content on the internet. To give you an example of how unique Sportsments is: Peter Asher has selected Sportsmens as the start of his tour to begin January 19th. Tickets for the event are $50. http://sportsmenstavern.com/calendar.html Further documentation follows http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/buffalo/sportsmens-tavern-highlighted-in-video http://www.visitbuffaloniagara.com/listings/index.cfm?action=display&listingID=11412&menuID=185&hit=1 1archie99 (talk) 07:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for coming to talk. I have a problem with adding business names for two reasons. Firstly, if we allowed mention of every Burger King, McDonalds, grocery store, etc, there would not be any room on the servers left for the rest of the info on Wikipedia. It is just a WP:BADIDEA. Most every community of any kind, be it neighborhood, town, city, has these things. Secondly, Wikipedia's purpose is to inform, not advertise. You can easily rewrite your info to not name business's by name.

Regarding the bar: A paper that is distributed for free is not the same as a mainstream newspaper. The reason books, magazines and newspapers (also TV news, so that ref IS good) are considered WP:RS is because they are fact-checked. I doubt a free paper is. You are more than welcome to inquire at the reliable sources noticeboard, tho. As I mentioned in a prior communication, the fact that the bar books national acts isn't really encyclopedic either. As an example, there is a bar in Boise, Idaho called the knitting factory which books national acts all the time. Similarly, and probably more on point, there are dozens of bars in Chicago's Bucktown neighborhood that also book national acts. Neither of the two articles mentioned includes any private, for-profit entertainment venues. If you look at several city (or neighborhood) articles, you will most likely not find any for-profit entertainment venues mentioned (that is, unless the venue is notable enough for its own Wikipedia article).

Your additions to the article are good, and definitely done in good faith. I just don't see why you can't communicate the same information without mentioning the names of individual businesses. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:39, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Fixed section started by gtwfan52 by copy and paste entire section in its entirety into a new section, then deleted original se.ction. Seemed to be the only way to fix title of section. 1archie99 (talk) 19:58, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Jan 1 2013 edit that was reverted before additional citations could be added or discussion could take place. Other editors join discussion in section above.

Notable places and events

• Amherst Street

Amherst Street between Military Road and Elmwood Avenue contains the only Wegmans supermarket in Buffalo, an antique store, two art galleries, two recording studios, the recently expanded Gambinos Liquor Store and several restaurants and taverns. A plaza at its intersection with Grant Street contains a Tops supermarket, an independent large pizzeria, a Burger King and other stores. This area is considered by area residents to be Downtown Black Rock.

• Sportsmen's Tavern and Music Hall

Located at 326 Amherst Street just west of Grant Street it was recently expanded to two floors with a cutout of the ceiling of the first floor over the stage. It is has been owned by local resident and musician Dwane Hall since 1985. It offers live music every day of the week, often two or more bands in one day. The cover charge varies from as little as three dollars to several times that amount for prominent touring bands. Mr. Hall also owns the adjoining Sessions Recording Studio. There is an outside patio on the second floor surrounding both buildings from which patrons can observe the street activity below. Draft beer brewed in the adjoining neighborhood of Riverside is among the selections. The long established Stone Counnty Band which Hall started before purchasing the Tavern plays there once or twice a month. His smaller band, The Twang Gang plays the early show on Tuesdays.The Sportsmens Tavern Turns Roadhouse 1 September 2011 Buffalo Rising Retrieved 1 January 2013.

Please note additional links that refer to the tavern which I found after the reversion took place which I placed in my part of the dicussion in the separate section above. (talk) 16:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Archie, I guess I will need to repeat myself again. The question isn't any of the establishment's existence. No-one doubts that, I think. The general practice at all settlement articles is to limit the use of specific business names, as they are generally of interest only to the local community, and the article is to be written for a world audience. Generally, specific businesses are only mentioned in lists of largest employers, which isn't really an appropriate section for a neighborhood, or if the business is notable on its own. The listing of the supermarket and Burger king just isn't going to be encyclopedic. Outside of your community, nobody cares if the liquor store was recently expanded. The guy who owns the bar got 1 google hit as a back-up musician to another artist---not notable per WP:NMUSIC. The band got two google hits, a myspace page and a youtube vid--neither WP:RS. The bar itself only has a couple articles in local media, nothing beyond the Buffalo area, which means that it too is not notable per WP:ORG. The paragraphs you have written here are strictly WP:PROMO. And since less than 30 people watch this article, I will post a notice at wikiproject Cities to try to get some further input for you. Gtwfan52 (talk) 18:21, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

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Important item missing.

The Black Rock Historical Society operates the Black Rock Museum. It is located at 453 Amherst Street 2603:7080:2144:3600:3CC8:E024:8F96:DABB (talk) 21:40, 9 April 2022 (UTC)