Talk:Black Tie White Noise

Add New jack swing as a genre?

I've been listening to the album, and I believe that many of the songs are better described as Rock/New jack swing/Funk than Rock/Electronic/Dance.

When I first heard the album's songs, they seemed very similar to those on Control and Dangerous.

Can anyone explain to me why New jack swing is not mentioned anywhere in the article?--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 18:49, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I think we'd need some published article that says so to add it. Changing genre's seems to be a touchy thing. I'm for it if there's proof to back it up! 87Fan (talk) 04:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

"it is his final number one album to date"

The Next Day has been placed at number 1 on multiple charts, including the UK albums chart. [source] Should this be updated? 71.194.152.136 (talk) 01:25, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I didn't notice your comment until after I had already updated the article, but the answer is yes. Done. 87Fan (talk) 04:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

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Savage Records harming the success of the album in the USA?

There's nothing much about Savage Records in this write up about Black Tie White Noise. I thought it would be more prominent in the article with some people at the time pointing to the troubles at Savage to why the album wasn't a big hit in the USA....

Info about Savage...

"David Mimran's Savage Records (known for British band Soho and their Smiths-sampling indie-dance hit "Hippychick" in 1991) was set up by the Swiss teenager in 1986 and funded by his multi-millionaire father. Due to the almost endless financing of his father and the fact their A&R manager (a Swiss record shop owner called Bernard Fanin) had industry experience, the label managed to make it into the 1990s with a number of dance and hip-hop hits by artists such as Silver Bullet and A Homeboy, Hippy and A Funky Dread (issued on Savage's Tam Tam dance label). Around the time Soho had their top ten UK hit, Mimran decided that Savage would not just be a British indie, but would be an American major instead. Savage Records went on a spending spree in America, which resulted in them opening plush offices on Broadway, hiring Michael Jackson's manager Frank DiLeo and signing David Bowie to a massive $3.4 million record deal, all which ended when Mimran's father, Jean Claude, cut finances." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.247 (talk) 18:12, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Black Tie White Noise/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Realmaxxver (talk · contribs) 00:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Adding some comments soon. Can't believe I've never asked this before, but do you want to make David Bowie studio albums a good topic? Realmaxxver (talk) 00:02, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

That's the end goal :-) – zmbro _(talk) 15:13, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

k Realmaxxver (talk) 16:57, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Realmaxxver Can we move this along please? – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 23:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Comments

Lead

• "Recorded from throughout 1992 between studios in Montreux, Los Angeles and New York City, production was handled by Bowie and Nile Rodgers, who previously co-produced 1983's Let's Dance." → "It was recorded throughout 1992 between studios in Montreux, Los Angeles and New York City, with production was handled by Bowie and Nile Rodgers, who previously co-produced 1983's Let's Dance."

• Done

• "Lead single "Jump They Say" alludes to Bowie's step-brother Terry, who died in 1985." WP:DUPLINK WP:SEAOFBLUE with the previous sentence ("It also contains multiple instrumentals and cover versions.") but also with the link to Jump They Say; but it could also be expanded, like "The album's lead single "Jump They Say" alludes to Bowie's step-brother Terry, who died in 1985."

• I don't know what you're getting at. DUPLINKS implies repeated links which none of those are. Do you mean WP:SEAOFBLUE? Also, there's no point in doing that if by "expanded" you mean two extra words. – zmbro _(talk) 14:56, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

• Zmbro yeah, WP:SEAOFBLUE makes more sense. There still is SEAOFBLUE at the start of the second sentence (at "Lead single Jump They Say") Realmaxxver (talk) 23:03, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

• My bad, fixed.

• "Released amidst the rise of Britpop in the UK, Black Tie White Noise received favourable reviews from music critics initially, with some praising its experimentation, while others criticised its overall lack of cohesion. Some considered it Bowie's best work since Scary Monsters (1980)."; Move "initially" to right after "Black Tie White Noise"; "Released amidst the rise of Britpop in the UK, Black Tie White Noise initially received favourable reviews from music critics,"

• Done

Background

• "The pair, who had reconnected in New York City after a Tin Machine concert in 1991,[3] first recorded "Real Cool World" for the animated film Cool World; it was released as a single in August 1992 and appeared on the film's accompanying soundtrack album.[4] The song featured a sound that would foreshadow Bowie's direction for his next solo record.[2][5]" → "The pair, who had reconnected in New York City after a Tin Machine concert in 1991,[3] first recorded "Real Cool World" for the animated film Cool World. It was released as a single in August 1992 and appeared on the film's accompanying soundtrack album,[4] and featured a sound that would foreshadow Bowie's direction for his next solo record.[2][5]"

• Done

Production

Recording history

• "A working title for the album was The Wedding Album.[10][11]" I might be wrong, but I feel like this part should be moved to the "Artwork and title" section.

• Yeah you're right, changed

Guest musicians

• "Bowie reconnected with Ronson,[c] whose last appearance was on 1973's Pin Ups, after being impressed by the latter's production work on Morrissey's Your Arsenal (1992).[2][17][16]" → "Ronson, whose last appearance was on 1973's Pin Ups,[c] was reconnected with Bowie, after the latter was impressed by the latter's production work on Morrissey's Your Arsenal (1992).[2][17][16]"

• Done except the last "latter's" should now be "former's"

• "Singer Al B. Sure! duets with Bowie on the title track.[22] The two worked on the arrangement extensively, leading Bowie to quip "I've never worked longer with any artist than with Al B."[23]" → "Singer Al B. Sure! duets with Bowie on the title track,[22] of which the two worked on the arrangement extensively, leading Bowie to quip "I've never worked longer with any artist than with Al B."[23]"

• Done

• "Lester's playing appears on six tracks; his contributions are considered by Pegg to be the album's "essential musical identity".[9]" → "Lester's playing appears on six tracks, in which his contributions are considered by Pegg to be the album's "essential musical identity".[9]"

• Done

Music and lyrics

Overview

• "Bowie told Rolling Stone that his intent for Black Tie White Noise was making a new type of house record that brought back the "strong melodic content" of the 1960s, finding "the new R&B [of today]" a mixture of "hip-hop and house".[3]" I am pretty sure that this interview is referenced in the next sentence, but the defined source is referring to The Boston Globe; so this may need to be properly sourced.

• Yep, you're right. My bad, not sure what happened there.

• "Perone finds the "Black Tie" represents "a wedding" white "White Noise" represents the "instrumentally focused, slightly experimental jazz pieces".[22]" I think "white "White Noise"'" is a typo.
• Fixed

Songs

• "Pegg states that the lyric foreshadows the "fractal images" Bowie would use for his next studio album, Outside (1995).[21]" I think "lyric" is supposed to be plural

• Fixed

• ""Jump They Say" discusses themes of mental illness.[22] It is loosely based on David's step-brother Terry Burns, who committed suicide after being hospitalised for schizophrenia in the 1980s.[e][27]" → ""Jump They Say" discusses themes of mental illness,[22] and is loosely based on David's step-brother Terry Burns, who committed suicide after being hospitalised for schizophrenia in the 1980s.[e][27]"

• Done

• "Musically, Pegg describes it as a "Euro-disco/jazz-funk fusion" evocative of the Berlin Trilogy, while it lyrically predates the content found on Outside.[28] Buckley praises it as Bowie's "best musical moment in a decade".[12]" → "Musically, Pegg describes it as a "Euro-disco/jazz-funk fusion" evocative of the Berlin Trilogy, while it lyrically predates the content found on Outside;[28] and Buckley praises it as Bowie's "best musical moment in a decade".[12]"

• The 'and' there makes it a run-on to me. And instances where you can use 'and' after a semi-colon don't apply here – zmbro _(talk) 16:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

• "O'Leary compares its arrangement to 1984's Tonight " for consistency, change it to "O'Leary compares its arrangement to Tonight (1984)"

• Done

• "Perone calls the instrumental "Looking for Lester" "credible mid-1990s jazz".[22] It features David and Lester Bowie soloing on saxophone and trumpet, respectively." → "Perone calls the instrumental "Looking for Lester" "credible mid-1990s jazz",[22] and features David and Lester Bowie soloing on saxophone and trumpet, respectively."

• Reads better the current way in my eyes. – zmbro _(talk) 16:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Artwork and title

• "According to Buckley, the title was a comment on the racial mix of Bowie and Iman's marriage and the fusion of American and British musical styles Bowie was experimenting with. It was also in debt to the cut-up technique Bowie had discussed in an interview with writer William S. Burroughs in the mid-1970s.[12]" → "According to Buckley, the title was a comment on the racial mix of Bowie and Iman's marriage and the fusion of American and British musical styles Bowie was experimenting with, and was also in debt to the cut-up technique Bowie had discussed in an interview with writer William S. Burroughs in the mid-1970s.[12]"

• Like the above points, these suggestions are coming off as comma splices to me. This sentence especially doesn't need to be longer than it already is. – zmbro _(talk) 16:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Release and promotion

• "It was supported by a Mark Romanek-directed music video featuring numerous references to Bowie's prior work.[12] Pegg calls it one of Bowie's finest videos, praising its "non-linear" imagery.[27]" → " It was supported by a Mark Romanek-directed music video featuring numerous references to Bowie's prior work,[12] which Pegg calls one of Bowie's finest videos, praising its "non-linear" imagery.[27]"

• Again, I really don't get why everything needs to be one sentence. It's perfectly fine the way it is. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 19:04, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Critical reception

• "but concluded its "bent, ethnic-sounding notes create the album's most atmospheric moments" ' " I think "concluded" is the wrong word. maybe It could be "but described that its "bent, ethnic-sounding notes create the album's most atmospheric moments" ' "

@Zmbro: hello? Realmaxxver (talk) 21:21, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

• Changed to "felt" – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:01, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath and legacy

• I feel like the first paragraph about Bowie's movie could also be in the Release and promotion section

• Which one? It should be in one or the other. I find aftermath makes it flow better with deciding not to tour. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 16:01, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

• "Including Bowie's two albums with Tin Machine, the writers of Consequence of Sound ranked Black Tie White Noise number 18 out of 28 in their 2018 list." → "In a 2018 list which included Bowie's two albums with Tin Machine, the writers of Consequence of Sound ranked Black Tie White Noise number 18 out of 28."

• Done

Finished with the review. Realmaxxver (talk) 12:58, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Image review

All of the images seem to be licensed correctly, just wondering if there is an available replacement for the Mike Garson pic. Realmaxxver (talk) 03:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

• No – zmbro _(talk) 14:57, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Copyvio

The Quote in the Artwork and title section should be shortened down; as it shows a 67% similarity with this article.

• Trimmed it down slightly. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:59, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

•  Passing now. Realmaxxver (talk) 17:04, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Overall

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

References

Looking For Lester/notes

In the notes under the track listing, the following is stated:

• Nile Rodgers was not given a co-writing credit for "Looking for Lester" on the original 1993 release, but his credit was added on the 2003 reissue.

This is not entirely true. While Rodgers' credit IS missing from the track listing, the credit IS given in the publishing attributions. It reads (from my 1993 Savage CD):

• Looking For Lester (Bowie/Rodgers) Tintoretto Music BMI/Tommy Jymi, Inc. BMI

Unsure if anybody wants to change this... Robbmonster (talk) 06:18, 7 February 2023 (UTC)