Talk:Blanche Girouard

She's not Irish

Why is she described as Irish; it's especially stupid to link to Irish people when she descends from Anglo-Irish protestants. She was born in London and worked for British publishers as well! Why try and claim her as Irish @Bastun. Who cares about "Blanche Girouard" anyway?! She's hardly Yeats. Gaelicbow (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Um... you clearly care? You can live and work in Britain and still be Irish? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Why is she apt to be described, and linked to, as Irish though? Explain this to me... Gaelicbow (talk) 18:40, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Seeing as you aren't properly engaging in this and have as yet provided a poor/inadequate argument, I feel inclined to RV to my original position (i.e. the reality that she is best described as a British or Anglo-Irish writer), but as a compromise to solve this trivial debate the article need not describe any nationality. Gaelicbow (talk) 17:26, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Dude. I have over 3,500 pages on my watchlist, Gaelicbow, so if I'm not actively pinged, yes, I will miss occasionally miss replies. Why is she apt to be described as Irish? Because she was the daughter of two Irish peers, and was raised in Ireland. Anglo-Irish is still Irish. Religion is irrelevant. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 17:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Bastun Why not agree to a compromise? FYI, an "Irish peer" describes a bearer of a peerage in the Peerage of Ireland; they are almost always ethnically Anglo-Irish and generally identified as British (Beresfords ditto). For this person to be born in London wholly makes her apt to be described as British. That she was raised in Ireland doesn't matter: someone who was raised in China by British parents is not going to be described as Chinese! Gaelicbow (talk) 17:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Your position seems to be "Anglo-Irish"==British. I disagree. Birthplace has little to do with nationality. David Norris and Úna-Minh Kavanagh are both Irish. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 18:03, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

No, I agree that some Anglo-Irish people identified as simply Irish and of course an Irish person born outside of Ireland can still be Irish. But I cannot see any evidence that Blanche Girouard identified as an Irishwoman on par to Norris and Kavanagh or say Shane MacGowan; and these people were ethnically Gaelic-Irish so their different kettles of fish. Gaelicbow (talk) 18:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Bastun Ok. Fine. I cannot be bothered even though I'm in the right. Will you at least let me remove the link to Irish people (which is what caused to me edit this page in the first place) as it violates WP:Ethnicity. Gaelicbow (talk) 18:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

What do you think of this source. A quote: Blanche Girouard, born in 1898, was a prominent figure in the Anglo-Irish aristocracy of the early twentieth century. Her father was the Marquess of Waterford, (...). The Banner talk 23:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I think @Bastun concedes to the fact that she was an Anglo-Irish aristocrat. His nonsensical stance is that she is not only apt to be described as Irish but linked to that ethnic group on the basis that her parents were Anglo-Irish peers and that could mean she identified as an Irish person (no evidence for that assertion); and that she grew up in Ireland— but so what? She grew up as leader of a fox hunt during the war for goodness sake! Don't you see my point of view @The Banner? We can infer she was more 'British' by looking at her children (see Mark Girouard). Gaelicbow (talk) 13:28, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

There is no need for personal attacks, even when you try to push your opinion on the article. You did not provide any, any evidence that she is not Irish. The Banner talk 15:09, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

How is it a "personal attack" to say an editor's stance is "nonsensical"? The fact is that describing her as Irish is nonsense; there's nothing personal or attacking about this @The Banner Gaelicbow (talk) 16:12, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Here's some evidence (which I have already stated) why she is not apt to be described as Irish:

(1) She was born in London. This is usually enough to prevent people being considered entirely Irish on wikipedia (wrongly so I think), e.g. Shane MacGowan. Unlike Girouard, Yeats was born in Ireland and had an affinity to Irish people and culture.

(2) Girouard spent most of her life in England. While she grew up in Ireland, she spent most of her life working in London and died in car crash in there. She is buried in Surrey.

(2) Her parents were Anglo-Irish aristocrats; she is therefore by definition Anglo-Irish. In fact, some Anglo-Irish people born in Ireland are described as British, e.g. Wellington. (I'd advise research on her family, the Beresfords, Marquesses of Waterford. Unsurprisingly they weren't Irish nationalists).

(3) Her children were 'British' and also born in the United Kingdom. (See Mark Girouard's page and refs for evidence).

(4) Conversion to Catholicism was due to marrying an English (French-Canadian background) Catholic; In case you were wondering, there was nothing Irish-Catholic about her religious conversion. Gaelicbow (talk) 16:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

1-4: all guess work not based on reliable sources. The Banner talk 18:38, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

When I die, I will be buried in Ireland. Will that make me Irish? The Banner talk 18:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

How is it guess work? They're facts, and sound evidence, supported in this page and the others mentioned. Neither you nor @Bastun have provided any decent argument or evidence that she is apt to be described as Irish! Gaelicbow (talk) 19:07, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Oh wait, let me see... ok here here we are: she grew up in Ireland and her parents were Anglo-Irish peers.... Wow. What an incredible argument! Gaelicbow (talk) 19:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I am waiting for your reliable sources. The Banner talk 12:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Your argument is still merely "Anglo-Irish==British, because I say so." Can we stop this now? Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 12:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

No it's not! I listed 4 valid reasons why she should be described as either British or Anglo-Irish. She was Anglo-Irish by ethnicity and British by nationality/citizenship: the sources haven proven this. How is insufficient evidence to say that she was born, and lived, and worked, and died in the United Kingdom! It's all in this article. Don't tell me "Can we stop this now?" when it's because of your nonsensical POV that we have had this pointless, trivial discussion! Gaelicbow (talk) 13:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

SHE WAS BORN IN LONDON. SHE CAME FROM AN ANGLO-IRISH BACKGROUND. THEREFORE like 2+2=4; Blanche Girouard = Anglo-Irish/British. Gaelicbow (talk) 13:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying Anglo-Irish = British, I am saying she is apt to be described as either of those things. Gaelicbow (talk) 13:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

No, you seem to be insisting that Anglo-Irish could not possibly mean Irish, and must only ever mean British. So much for your "being willing to compromise"! Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 13:42, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

No I already said that "some Anglo-Irish identified as Irish. But there is no evidence Blanche Girouard did so". Do you not read my responses? Don't play coy; you are consistently ignoring my arguments and this is so tiresome and pathetic on your part. Gaelicbow (talk) 13:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Do I need to reiterate it? SHE WAS BORN IN LONDON. SHE CAME FROM AN ANGLO-IRISH BACKGROUND. SHE LIVED AND DIED IN UK. She is therefore, best described as either British or Anglo-Irish, not Irish. Gaelicbow (talk) 13:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Cop on. Stop shouting. As previously pointed out, birthplace is irrelevant. David Norris, Úna-Minh Kavanagh, Mick McCarthy and James Connolly are or were all Irish, despite not being born here. Tell you what - you can have Conor McGregor. You do not have consensus for your change, and the stable version of this article has listed the subject as Irish since the day the article was created. Take this as your 3RR warning, and self-revert to what you said you'd be happy with, further up the page. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:49, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Bastun Yes I would be happy with that. No nationality is the solution, if you can't be persuaded to reason. You ignored my proposal of that, so don't turn this on me! Gaelicbow (talk) 14:54, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

The ref you added just says she was "born into an Irish Protestant family". Nice try - how cute as if that isn't evident and already established! Leave it with the compromise as exists with Mick McCarthy. Gaelicbow (talk) 15:13, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Irish Protestants are Irish. You are now removing referenced content. A "resolution" is only a resolution when it's agreed. Don't say you weren't warned... Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 21:12, 11 February 2024 (UTC)