Talk:Board of Ceremonies

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Tokugawa master of ceremonies

The following were posted in the "See also" section, but I had second thoughts:

Kōke, Tokugawa shogunate master of ceremonies?
- Kira Yoshinaka, Tokugawa kōke?
- Imagawa Norinobu, Tokugawa kōke?
Nishio Tadasaka, Tokugawa official?

Comments? Suggestions? --23:51, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Overhaul needed

Latest comment: 11 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I'll broadly try to outline the changes required. Here is the lede before changes:

The Master of Ceremonies (治部卿, Jibu-kyō) is one of the major positions in the Japanese Imperial Household Agency.

The current Imperial Household Agency came into being post-WWII (before end of war it was a ministry). Under the IHA's official website already IHA organization page, the name given is "Grand Master of the Ceremonies" (I'll use GMC for short) and is used in the body of the article. If you look up the corresponding Japanese language version] of the official site, you will learn that the post is Shikibu-kanchō (式部官長).

So I don't know how 治部卿 ([Jibu-kyō] Error: {{nihongo}}: text has italic markup (help)) got slipped in. This is the Minister of Civil Affairs, and is basically and ancien regime (Ritsuryō) office. The Jibu-kyō or the ministry Jibu-shō barely merits mention in the article, so the #Pre-Meiji period section's hierarchy is irrelevant and redundant (cut & pasted from the Jibu-shō artucke), so it's going to be nixed -- Though one might just mention in passing somewhere that the Music Department that belongs now under the GMC's board once belonged under Jibu-shō. Other ceremonial function rested with the Shikibu-shō or the "Ministry of Ceremonial".

.. Ministry of the Ceremonies (治部省, Jibu-shō?); also known as the "Ministry of the Interior"[2]

In fact, Jibu-shō is hardly ever translated as the "Ministry of Ceremonies" in most books I've searched, and if it appears in Varley's tr. of Jinnō Shōtoki that is cited, it is a rare exception. In fact you would find contrary evidence if you click the Sheffield's website given as [2] above, which says it is Shikbu-shō that is known as the "Ministry of Ceremonies". And for that matter, I don't know how the "Ministry of the Interior" alias slipped in here, because it doesn't appear anywhere under Sheffield's site search (site:www.temcauley.staff.shef.ac.uk "Ministry"). Sheffield calls Jibu-shō "Ministry of Civil Administration"--Kiyoweap (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

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