Talk:Bob Keyes

USD press release announcing Keyes death

This press release issued by the University of San Diego in 1978 might be too much of a primary source to be very useful, but it might provide some insight as to where to look for more sources to try and improve this article. It also might be the source of the information recently added since that info pretty much appears to be identical to the press release. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:54, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that press release too. I think it is an adequate source for his attendance and graduation from USD, his being captain of their football team, his service as a trustee, and his date of death. I really want to see a second source for the claim that he played for the San Francisco 49ers. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:07, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Those stats websites like the one here are generally good sources for purely statistical information, which "games played" is. He meets WP:NGRIDIRON barely. One game played 4 downs and touched the ball once. None of his political positions rise to an WP:NPOL pass (unless the board of regents position is elected). I'm not seeing even any potential for sources viz his NFL career. There was a claim of All American in the article. If that can be substantiated, that has much more potential for sources (but we don't even have a date). I'm as ignorant as can be on Cali politics, so no opinion on what potential might be there. John from Idegon (talk) 00:27, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

The All-American thing should be fairly easy to verify even for a player from the 60s since it's generally the type of information that's often easily found online (even if it's only as part of a list of names), but so far I haven't been able to do so. This doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, but my feeling is that the claim was probably added in good faith but by mistake. It's possible that "All-American" means "High School All-American", which though a nice accolade is not nearly as significant; it's also possible that there was a mix up based upon a bit of bad Googling.

Leroy Keyes is another African-American player from roughly the same era who played for Purdue, was a running back and was selected as an "All-American" twice (1967 and 1968). There are other players named "Keyes" who've been selected as an All-American over the years as well; so, if you Google "Keyes All-American", you're going to get hits which might make it easily to mix people up. I actually mixed up USD with UCSD at first, but it's hard to image any US university, especially a smallish private school, not only not prominently listing its All-Americans through the years somewhere online, but also especially difficult to imagine not including such information in a school-issued obituary about such a person.

There's also something else that's a bit odd about this press release. It says that Keyes graduated USD in 1962, but the article states that he played professional football from 1959 to 1961. Although it's not at all uncommon these days for student-athletes to leave school early for the pros and to finish their studies while pursing their profession, but I'm not so sure such a thing was even possible back then; even if it was, the student-athlete would almost certainly no longer be eligible to complete as an amateur because of their former professional status. So, the dates aren't adding up for me and either the dates have been mixed up or something quite unusual happened. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:18, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

I tired something and think I've figured it out. This is an official announcement from the office of Governor Ronald Reagan that announces Keyes becoming a special assistant to Reagan. It states that Keyes was a junior college All-American in 1956–57 while playing for Antelope Valley Junior College which is now Antelope Valley College. Perhaps after graduating AVJC, Keyes moved on to USD. This seems like quite a common thing to do, even for back then. There's still a bit of a date mix up between playing pro football and playing college football at USD, but perhaps Keyes never did play for USD and his college career ended after AVJC. The Reagan press release still refers to Keyes as "the captain of the University's football team as a junior" which seems odd since junior colleges aren't usually called "universities", but I think that's a mistake made by the person who wrote the press release, which probably was largely based upon a bio provided by Keyes or his representatives. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:34, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Lockhead Aircraft Corp

This blurb from a 1972 issue of Jet (magazine) announces Keyes becoming director for urban affairs at Lockheed Corporation and also states he was the on;y Clack member of Ronald Reagan's staff when Reagan was the Governor of California. This might be a good thing to try and flesh out and see if better sources can be found. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Good finds, Marchjuly. The Jet source is great for that one fact. In my opinion, press releases from an established Jesuit university are primary sources that are assumed to be reliable and acceptable for assertions that are not self-serving. Given that this man died a long time ago, I think can can cite these press releases for basic biographical information. I think we can assume that the university did basic fact checking for official releases of information about the appointment and death of one of their trustees. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:44, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

USD press release announcing Keyes appointment as trustee

This press release issued by the University of San Diego in 1969 announces Keyes becoming a trustee of the university and it also contains some biographical information about him as well. As a press release it might have limited value, but it can possibly lead to other sources. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

JC football career

There's a bit written about Keyes as a player for Antelope Valley Junior College in this November 1956 San Bernardino Sun article. Apparently he was nicknamed the "Lancaster Phantom" and was a Southern California JC scoring champion. Not much in the way of solidfying a claim of notability, but it could possibly used as a source for some article content. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:35, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

It appears that Keyes was Co-captain of the 1958 team and played baseball as well according to these old clippings. If you search Keyes you'll get lots of hits. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:44, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Politics

Another blurb from Jet reporting on Keyes apparently having a falling out with Reagan over the latter's choice of an "All-white advisory" board as part of his 1976 presidential campaign. I'm pretty sure that "Reagan's main man" was a bit of an embellishment, but it might indicate that Keyes had some prominence/recognition as a black republican at a time when there might have not been that many around. There's also a bit more on this found in this transcript from interviews held as part of a Bancroft Library "Government History Documentation Project" about Ronald Reagan's time as the Governor of Callifornia. It refers to Keyes by name and mentions that he "went into the governor's office" and even mentions he had already died by the time the interview was given in 1986. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:54, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

I found this photo and blurb about Keyes and Reagan at a Christmas Party published in the USD student newspaper in Janauary 1968; the caption seems offensive by today's standards, but was probably considered funny back then. It does, however, refer to Keyes as Reagan's "top human relations assistant" and makes reference to him being a teacher-coach at some high school before joining Reagan's staff. There's also this interview Keyes gave to the same student newspaper in February 1968 which dscribes him as "Gov. Reagan's top aid on community affairs". -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:19, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

More old newspaper clippings about Keyes, though I'm not sure what paper exactly. Maybe the USD student newspaper? -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)