Talk:Bobak Ferdowsi

Delete the entry

Bob is one of the thousands engineers that work into space business. It is also in a non relevant position: head of Avionics or them- mecc Architecture or at least a subsystem responsible.I know more important aerospace engineer that are super deep scuba diver, skydivers and so on. He had 15 minute glory during a streaming and now he has an enciclopedia entry as Tesla, Einstein or Churchill. Please delete the entry. Raffaele — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.161.44.69 (talk) 18:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Iranian-American

A number of news sources are calling him an "Iranian-American" but this is incorrect. Ferdowsi was born in America to an American mother and has an American citizenship. Green Cardamom (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

The construction X-American is often used to ancestry rather than birthplace, see Iranian American. So it's not necessarily incorrect. Such labels would need to be well-sourced, however. --j⚛e decker^talk 14:50, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Ferdowsi himself is on record as stressing he is American (in the Huffington Post video). He makes no distinction about calling himself a "Iranian American". The Guardian source is not reliable when looking at who called him Persian-American (a Tweet by an anon Internet user). Normally a distinction is made when there is reason to emphasize someones ethnicity such as an author who writes about their home country or who is known for their cultural output. I'm concerned members of the Persian-American community will co-op Ferdowsi's fame as a source of pride and emphasize it, while Ferdowsi himself may have no interest in making the distinction, seeing himself simply as "American" (who in America is not from an ethnic background?). I could be wrong, but I think we need a source where he confirms the label or shows a clear affinity as being an Iranian-American. Green Cardamom (talk) 15:04, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

That'd be my preference as well, I think the relevant policy is at MOS:IDENTITY. (BTW, thanks for putting together the article here!) --j⚛e decker^talk 16:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Green Cardamom (talk) 16:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

African American, Asian American or Japanese American, means an ancestry related to that specific group as stated rightfully by Mr. Decker. Mr. Ferdowsi's father is from Iran which means his ancestry is Iranian and he is an Iranian-American the same way Mr. Barack Obama is the first African-American president although his mother is American and he was born and raised in US. Both Bobak and Ferdowsi are also Persian names.
Interesting enough Mr. Green Cardomom removal of this fact is his concern that Persian-American community be proud of it !!!! Now this argument goes into totally another category which does not belong to Wiki. For your information there are a lot of Iranian-American in Nasa in critical posts such as the director of solar system exploration Dr. Firouz Naderi at JPL
I also checked the video of his interview on Huffington Post and contrary to your claim, he does not stress he is American !!!! Eight minutes into the interview he says: "My dad comes from Iran, I am a mixed, they met in college and I am a product of that". And to the interviewers question: "There are a lot of Persian pride, do you get those messages too". He replies: "It is awesome it always fun to help a community feel inspired." So he does have interest in making that distinction. Kamrang (talk) 07:59, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with your interpretation of that video, you didn't quote the rest he says: "..but in general I'm just a kid that works at the JPL" - he rather focuses on his career and moves the conversation away from ethnicity. There is no question his father is from Iran, the point is, does Ferdowsi self-identify as an "Iranian-American" or just "American". Every first-generation American (ie. born in American to immigrant(s)) could self-identify as being "X-American", but not everyone does. As for inspiring other people of Persian descent, that's not the same as as self-identifying as "Persian-American" vs "American". Please see MOS:IDENTITY which is the rule we go by on Wikipedia. If you can find a sources where calls himself a Persian-American, great. Does Ferdowsi belong to Iran-American organizations or I-A activities? The article is quite clear about his partial Iranian descent, so there is no issue, it's not like anything is being hidden. It's a question of labels that Ferdowsi may or may not want to emphasize as being central about himself. You brought up Firouz Naderi which is good because one can read his bio how active he is in Iranian-American activities, he is a clear case of someone that would self-identify as "Iranian-American" vs "American". Green Cardamom (talk) 16:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually he would be properly considered second generation. See immigrant generations. As far as the ethnic label issue, sources should be used either way, meaning that if he does not self-identity as Iranian-American, that should be sourced, and conversely, if he does self-identify as Iranian-American, that should be sourced as well. There are no hard and fast rules, but generally speaking, if a subject does not self-identify with a particular label, it should not be used in the introductory paragraph, leaving any mention of ethnic background for the "Personal life" section. There is no issue, of course, with having "Americans of Iranian descent" included as a category. The problem with having an ethnic identifier in the introduction is that the other half of his ancestry may not be Iranian. For example, his mother could be of Scottish descent. What are you going to do then, include both in the introduction? That wouldn't be feasible. So, I would recommend leaving any information about his ancestry and ethnicity for a "Personal life" section. That way the article remains neutral on the subject. But like I said, if he does personally identify as "Iranian-American," then that is different. But it must be sourced. Laval (talk) 19:10, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I have requested indefinite semi-protection for this page in an attempt to ensure it adheres to the Biographies of Living Persons policy for wikipedia. Dane2007 (talk) 04:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

he is Iranian-American based on Iranian and American law of citizenship

@Dane2007:

• Iranian law of citizenship said clearly every person born in All of the world who have Iranian father is an Iranian.
• American law of citizenship recognized Duel Citizenship
• also based on International law of citizenship every person can get his/her citizenship from his/her parents.

The Stray Dog by Sadeq Hedayat 16:05, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I thought we've been through this before. If you have a source showing (in some way) he self-identifies as Iranian, Persian, Iranian-America, American-Iranian, Persian-Irian-American-Japanese, etc.. then we can use that. Until then we default to his country of birth. You mention Duel Citizenship that is not sourced either and the idea of International law getting it from parents is original research there is no evidence he is an Iranian citizen it's conjecture. -- GreenC 16:34, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

As mentioned above by Green Cardamom, this has been discussed greatly at length here until a source is made and we don't use original research on wikipedia. -- Dane2007 ^talk 21:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Image

Joe, thanks for the image. One of the issues I saw with JPL images is on the JPL Image Use Policy page it says

"If an image includes an identifiable person, using the image for commercial purposes may infringe that person's right of privacy or publicity, and permission should be obtained from the person. NASA and JPL generally do not permit likenesses of current employees to appear on commercial products. For more information, consult the NASA and JPL points of contact listed above. "

I don't know what to make of this in terms of Wikicommons policy that requires images be commercially re-usable. It's sort of a conflict, although the JPL policy seems to be more of a warning than a prohibition ie. check with us first. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:16, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Wow, good catch. I will attempt to find someone who is more familiar with the image licensing requirements than I am to take a look. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:28, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I've added a question here. --j⚛e decker^talk 18:34, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Looks like we're good to go! --j⚛e decker^talk 19:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Great. I also added the personality rights template to Adam Steltzner's photos. I'm going to post a followup question in that thread, somewhat unrelated. Green Cardamom (talk) 19:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Awesome, that might net us the use of [1] as well. --j⚛e decker^talk 20:36, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I've uploaded that photo to File:Bobak Ferdowsi during MSL landing (201208050020HQ).jpg. Wish I could find a more normalised image of him...I don't particularly care for either. — Huntster (t @ c) 11:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

It's uncertain that image can be uploaded to Commons. See my comments over at Talk:Adam_Steltzner#NASA picture. My research indicates it is licensed under a non-commercial restriction and not usable on Commons. If you have new/additional information to the contrary it would be great. Green Cardamom (talk) 15:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

The Mohawk and capitalization

Regarding this edit

"Mohawk Guy" has been pretty consistently capitalized by the press as a proper noun, I think we should follow the sources and capitalize it too. Indeed it is a proper noun since it refers to a specific person as a nickname. I called it "an unusual Mohawk" because the press has often commented on its unusual features including purple coloring and stars and stripes carved into the side. I didn't want to get into all those details, will if required, feel that just saying "unusual" is good enough for the article lead section. It is correct that "mohawk hairstyle" should be lower-case and have kept that change. Green Cardamom (talk) 17:39, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Flight Director

I received notice on my talk page from a Wikipedia user who claims to have been involved with the Mars Curiosity mission who says that Ferdowsi was not Flight Director. I did some research and did find sources which conflict, saying that Keith Comeaux was Flight Director.[2] Ferdowsi may have been Activity Lead, per these sources for example,[3][4] but even then, it's not entirely clear, the first source above says he was "seated in an activity lead position adjacent to Martin Greco, who was in fact the activity lead for the landing." So maybe Ferdowsi isn't even Activity Lead. Until we have a solid source about his title for the mission I've removed mention of a title. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 00:09, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, it would be nice to know how that person on your talk page relates to the mission, because there are numerous articles on NASA.gov, written by both Ferdowsi and others, which state that he is a flight director on the Curiosity mission. See [5], [6], [7]. — Huntster (t @ c) 01:07, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Huh. Good catch. Now I don't know what to say. The sources are all over the place and I don't know how the NASA hierarchy works, is there more than one flight director? -- Green Cardamom (talk) 03:02, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

This picture shows Ferdowsi seated in the Activity Lead section, and across from him is Keith Comeaux with the Flight Director plaque (seen also in this picture). In fact if you scroll through the thumbnail pictures at the bottom (past the first few which appear to be jokes added later), Ferdowsi is labeled a "Systems Engineer", which makes more sense. The first picture in that tab series is "Mission Controller" (the grey-beard), second is "Flight Director" (Keith Comeaux in his 40s sitting right up front next to the mission controller). It seems unlikely that Ferdowsi would be Flight Director, one of the most senior positions, and be so young and sporting a flippant haircut, back in the second row. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 03:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, there is a lead flight director (Comeaux), but each shift would likely also have a junior flight director, so it is entirely possible that Ferdowsi is a flight director, rather than the flight director. It is hard to reconcile the "systems engineer" label in the photograph, but then again, I put more credence in the releases than in a label in the picture. Also, since that gigapan image appears to be a group photo, I would suggest that not everyone fit exactly into their respective stations, and some may have simply been placed in convenient places. Another mention on NASA.gov is [8], which calls him the "young mission director", the only page on the site which does so, thus likely an error. Note that I cannot find any reference on NASA.gov linking Ferdowsi as a "systems engineer". Confusing indeed. — Huntster (t @ c) 03:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Additionally, this academic paper states Comeaux is the Mars Science Laboratory Entry Verification and Validation lead, but that is the only NASA source which does so. Of course, there are plenty of non-NASA articles that also refer to him as Flight director, however, even more refer to Ferdowsi as the same. Ugh. — Huntster (t @ c) 03:57, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Just curious, did you find any NASA sources that call him Flight that pre-date the Mars landing mohawk episode? I agree junior flight is a good theory he might have been promoted after the landing. In the end it probably doesn't matter too much - we know he wasn't lead flight during the landing so being a routine shift flight seems less important to mention in an encyclopedia article. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 09:37, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Not for encyclopedia

he is one of the thousands engineer of Nasa,Esa and othe istitution. Became an encyclopedia item only for his hair it's really unbeliveble. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.215.240.18 (talk) 10:10, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

We don't discriminate why a person is notable, only that they are. See Wikipedia:Notability. -- Green Cardamom (talk) 15:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The 15 minutes glory does not justify an encyclopedia entry. The strength of the encyclopedia is to filter what he deserves in the middle of a sea of easy fame on the Internet. Especially when the fame is not tied to particular sporting merit, intellectual or otherwise. Every day there are 400 new sparse social network stars...we put an entry for each of them?? -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.215.240.18 (talk • contribs)

See Wikipedia:Notability for how notability is determined, in particular WP:GNG. The "400 sparse social network starts" would likely not pass these guidelines. -- GreenC 14:47, 5 July 2016 (UTC)