Talk:Bobby Van

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 21:38, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Bobby Van (actor) → Bobby Van – Of the three uses on the dab page Bobby Van, the actor is the only one of the three that 1.) has the exact name "Bobby Van", and 2.) has an article. The British slang is of little importance to the dab, but can still be hatnoted. "Bobby Van Trust" is a sufficiently different name that, per WP:PTM, should not be on the dab page in the first place. In short, I think it's safe to say that this is the only "Bobby Van" that most people are looking for. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:55, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

• Support; their is no real ambiguity here to justify a disambiguation page. The second meaning fails WP:PTM; the third meaning on the page fails WP:DABMENTION. bd2412 T 03:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
• Comment using DABMENTION is bureaucratic in the case of synonyms. If WP:NOTDIC, then necessarily, not every synonym will appear in our articles, but there's no reason for us to not be able to navigate using synonyms, therefore disambiguation pages should continue to list synonyms regardless of whether they appear on the target or not, as long as the synonym itself is a notable/common/popular variant. Otherwise, we will have enormous synonym sections in all our articles just to satisfy "mentioning" the spelling in question to support the existence of dab entries and redirects, and Wikipedia will become a dictionary. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 06:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
  • I see no evidence that a police van is actually called a "bobby van" beyond the level of "something made up one day. WP:DABMENTION prevents us from needing to include such things on a disambiguation page at all. In any case, such a usage would be for "bobby van", not "Bobby Van". bd2412 T 19:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
    • If it isn't used in Britain, then removing it is fine, but "bobby van" and "Bobby Van" are treated the same in the searchbox, if this were not a made up usage, then it should appear on the disambiguation. I've modified my followup statement with your clarification that this isn't used in Britain. -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 00:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
• Comment a hatnote would work, having the two entries from the disambiguation page as the {{confused|Bobby Van Trust}} and {{about|the actor|the vehicle|police van}} -- 70.50.151.11 (talk) 06:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

I've done a lot of research on Van, and if anyone wants to help me format stuff (I don't know how to do it), I'd be glad to write some highlights of his career.Imbabs (talk) 21:21, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

=Errors==  There are so many errors, I wonder if author is refusing to acknowledge them.

• • • Author states "His widow, Elaine Joyce, stated on the Sally Jessy Raphael talk show that Van suffered 13 days of headaches and went to the hospital where they made a small incision and tested the tumor. He survived the initial surgery, but after a year-long battle with cancer, he died in Los Angeles in 1980, and was interred at Mount Sinai Memorial Park Cemetery, a Jewish cemetery in Los Angeles." Elaine Joyce stated he'd had 13 days of headaches, did not show up for work when scheduled and was dragging his foot when walking. After seeing several doctors, and an analyst, she took Van to a hospital where he was given a CAT scan. He was diagnosed with a large brain tumor in the right front of his brain (as indicated by Joyce on Sally Jesse Raphael). The doctors performed brain surgery to assess the tumor (Austin American Statesman, March 20, 1980) to her objections. She stated that it appeared the "cancer was all over his brain" but the doctors did the surgery anyway causing "tremendous suffering" (same interview). She states that he lived 5.5 months after the diagnosis, which is true.67.164.134.56 (talk) 22:14, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

In an interview (The Palm Beach Post, December 6, 1981, page 2) Elaine stated that she never told Bobby he was going to die. He knew he had the tumor and it was malignant, but she had told him they "got it all" during surgery. She says he insisted that no one know what was going on following the surgery as he wanted "no negative, only positive thoughts" around him. He insisted on working until he no longer could, to cover the seriousness of his illness. She had 24 hour nurses near the end as Bobby had lost the use of his left side and was confined to a wheelchair. At the end, he was taken to UCLA Med Center, where he passed.

His fourth and last appearance as host of the "Mrs. America Pageant" in June 1980 and Elaine states it was "diabolical" because Bobby was "very weak", apologizing for his appearance. Bobby passed away a a few weeks later (The Palm Beach Post, December 6, 1981, page 2).

Also, Bobby Van did not remain his "stage name". He legally changed it to Bobby Van. (Abilene Reporter-News, Abilene TX July 18, 1976) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.134.56 (talk) 02:52, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

==

• • • He and Diana Garrett (real name Ernestine Garrett. DOB 11/7/1927 per marriage license) were married on September 11, 1952, but kept the marriage secret until January 1953 (Reno-Nevada State Journal, January 11, 1953).

Bobby and Diane attempted to have children for several years, but after losing a near-term baby in 1956 (The Progress-Index, Petersburg-Colonial Hights, Virginia, December 16, 1956 "medics give Diana 'restored-to-health' certificate following the cancellation of the Vans stork date"), they adopted a son in 1959 named Peter, 9 months after taking him in as a five day old baby (Independent, Feb. 22, 1961).

In 1959, Both Van and Garrett were injured in when their car was rear-ended (with passenger Judy Garland with them) (L.A. Times, November 13, 1959) and sued the other driver, seeking $107,000. Diane claimed she was unable to move for three weeks after the accident, both she and Bobby claimed back injury. Bobby was awarded $1,500 and Diana $5,000. (L.A. Times, November 20, 1959). Judy Garland testified for the Vans.

They separated (Vidette Messenger of Porter County, January 11, 1964) in January of 1964 and the divorce was final on September 27, 1966 despite rumors of a reconciliation in July of 1964 (Pasadena Independent July 6, 1964). He had returned to town as his son was undergoing emergency hip surgery, not to reconcile. In November of 1964, Walter Winchell stated in his column that Van "(recently divorced after a dozen years) hopes to persuade actress Emmaline Henry to be his new spouse." (Indianapolis Star, November 14, 1964). Imbabs (talk) 21:21, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

==

• • • The marriage of Bobby and Elaine ran a difficult course - an announcement was made On October 30, 1967 (Daily News, Oct. 30, 1967) that they had wed, but they had not. Then in November, a blurb in a Hollywood column (The El Dorado Times, Nov 29, 1967) stated that Bobby said he and Joyce planned to marry on December 2, 1967, but her brother, Frank Pinchot had chosen that date to marry his wife, so they would choose another date). In February of 1968, it was announced they would marry in Los Angeles on March 21. Bobby and Elaine were married in Las Vegas on May 1, 1968 (Clark County marriage license and New Castle News, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1968). One week later, Van filed for an annulment (Los Angeles Times, May 7, 1968 and Independent Long Beach, May 7, 1968) stating "fraud, non-consummation and that the "24 year old actress told him she wanted to have children but this was only to induce him into marriage". An article states that Bobby said that Elaine felt "so unhappy and insecure (about marrying), that it's the only way." (New Castle News, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1968) (She would later state on Tattletales that she "tried to run away". There is a preliminary divorce filed in 1968 for Elaine Joyce and Bobby Van. Elaine is listed as Elaine J Pinchot, year of birth 1943. It appears that it was never finalized, and they went on to have a 12 year marriage.67.164.134.56 (talk) 22:12, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

• • • Elaine was born December 19, 1943 (she and Bobby were both Saggitarians) in Cleveland, OH.

He had a daughter, Taylor Joyce with Elaine Joyce in 1976.Imbabs