Talk:Bochorna

Claim that Bochorna is the "highest settlement in Europe"

User:Kober, based on what definition of Europe are you making this claim?

Issue #1 — Europe as defined by Wikipedia and geographers typically extends to the crest of Caucasus Mountains, sometimes to the Mtkvari River. So whether or not Bochorna is located in Europe might be a matter of debate. It's definitely a gray area, though, and if I were a geographer I would maintain that it is part of Europe (specifically Bochorna) because it is actually north of the main Caucasus ridge.

Issue #2 — Whether or not the Northern Caucasus (i.e. Russia west of the Urals) is part of Europe geographically is not a matter of debate, as you can find in articles on Europe and the Geography of Europe.

Issue #3 — Based on the List of highest towns by country we see that Bochorna is lower than villages in both Azerbaijan (debatably part of geographical Europe) and Russia (undebatably part of geographical Europe).

Therefore I see no justification for you to undo my edits to the article, which were extremely conservative in nature considering Issue #1 and the generally uninformed nature of the article. --Richard Tbilisi (talk) 13:01, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry but the current version is sourced and your "issues" are based on your impressions, not sources. List of highest towns by country is not a source. Please bring reliable references for the highest villages in Azerbaijan and Russia. As long as they are cited, I have no problem with the version you're insisting on.--Kober^Talk 14:24, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm including three references to Russian language sites confirming the altitude of Kurush (Russia). There is also an extensive, well-referenced article on Kurush in the Russian Wikipedia.

As a matter of personal interest, I have looked at Kurush on Google Earth and confirmed the large number of houses there (100 or more) and have also looked at the village on open source topographical maps that show the center of the village at approximately 2530 meters. Richard Tbilisi (talk) 11:23, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I checked Khinalug on open source topo maps and found the center of the village is only 2170 meters, so I've removed that reference from the article. Seems there is a tendency to exaggerate the elevation of certain mountain settlements. Richard Tbilisi (talk) 11:51, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts, but neither of these websites can be considered reliable sources. I am leaving your version of that passage for the time being, though.--Kober^Talk 14:08, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

I fail to see why they are unreliable based on the guidelines, so I am undoing your edit. Please specify which point the cited sources infringe upon rather than simply removing them! There are referenced articles on Kurush in 6 languages already, and I can provide screenshots of maps confirming the altitude of the settlement. This is not a matter of "he said, she said." Anyone can go check for themself. Richard Tbilisi (talk) 10:32, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Here are screenshots of Kurush from opencyclemap.org (showing altitude) and Google Earth (showing houses) if you are still doubting. Please help me to make this article more factually accurate rather than creating barriers to editing it. After all, the entire Bochorna article is based on a single article on a Georgian government site that has a number of issues: 1) one person living in Bochorna for just a few years is considered "continuously inhabited"?? 2) all of the sudden a very serious looking information plaque with "USAID" on it is mounted in the village just because of this one person?? 3) a claim to have the highest settlement in Europe that ignores Dagestan 4) the single resident of the village may have moved there only for this status as he is quoted as saying, "This recognition will raise the awareness of Bochorna and attract more tourists to Tusheti. This will help us to strengthen and revive the village and return its population to their homes." So please be more cooperative. Richard Tbilisi (talk) 10:47, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Kurush

satellite image of Kurush, Dagestan

None of the sources you are citing meets WP:SOURCE standards. As a compromise, I'm leaving your preferred wording, but removing the comment on the Dagestan village. If anything, this is not the right place to compare all highest villages in the region. Those who are interested, can just click a link to the List of highest towns by country. As for your rhetoric regarding one-person population, that's not up to you to decide whether this is really enough to consider the place an inhabited village or not. The credible source, referring to the government, says it is the village and that's the fact on the ground whether you like it or not. --Kober^Talk 12:43, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough. At least now there is no factual error in the Wiki article itself. Can you answer my question about which of the WP:SOURCE standards all three of my references did not meet? That is a long page to read, and the answer is not obvious to me. These references are cited in pages on Kurush in other languages. As for your point on the official statement, I entirely accept the government decision on what is a village or not, though on a personal level I find it ridiculous and pointed that out in my comment. The Betlemi mountain hut and meteorological station next to Gergeti glacier is also manned year-round, and with another small leap of logic it could also be named the highest settlement. Richard Tbilisi (talk) 14:59, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Bochorna 4.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:21, 23 July 2019 (UTC)