Talk:Bohemian Forest

Requested move

Even the text states that this should be Bohemian Forest in English.

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

Support, as per request. Stemonitis 09:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Support, as per English usage. Olessi 16:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Oppose, a rough Google check indicates that the Czech name may be used more frequently in English than the somewhat confusing name "Bohemian forest". And even when I type "Bohemian forest" into Google the first hit I get uses Šumava [1]. I have no knowledge of Czech geography but it seems to me that the terms Bohemian forest and Šumava are not strictly synonymous. In any case I think we should defer to the actual editors of the article. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 21:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Support As long as we have separate articles about the Bavarian and Bohemian sides we should name them that way. Septentrionalis 23:57, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Support using English here. Via Egnatia

Support. Use English version of name. – Axman (☏) 05:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion closed as of 22:46, 3 November 2005 (UTC). Consensus was to move. Rob Church ^Talk 22:46, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

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Hinterer Bayerischer Wald

Shouldn't it just be listed as "...and the Bavarian side Bayerischer Wald (literally, 'Bavarian Forest')", as the Hinterer Bayerischer Wald is part of the Bavarian Forest? Olessi 16:31, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree - see history of the article... First it was written as you propose, but changed by 84.244.73.130. --Wikimol 09:25, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Requested move back to Sumava

I'm sorry I didn't noticed the previous move request. As pointed out by Haukurth, Sumava is more common name in English (and the trend is it will become more and more common). --Wikimol 23:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

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Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support. Unless someone presents a compelling case for another option I think we should defer to the person who wrote the article [2]. Also see my comments in the previous move request. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 00:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose but with reservations. This was just changed from Šumava a month ago. Not that it's an adequate way of deciding encyclopedia article titles but today the #1 Google hit for "Bohemian Forest" is Infoplease.com's entry "Bohemian Forest." I'm not sure how Šumava, which can't even be written with the normal English character set, is more English than Bohemian Forest. However, the "Český les" problem throws a wrench in things. Maybe if there were Český les entry AND a Šumava one, Bohemian Forest could be a kind of disambiguation page. LuiKhuntek 08:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. As a native English speaker I don't see how "Šumava" is more English than "Bohemian Forest". The latter is what I and many English language references (such as Britannica) refer to this region. So leave this article at the English version, we do have a name for this region in English, which is "Bohemian Forest". Marco79 17:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. The nominator should have waited 6 months before requesting a move back. Philip Baird Shearer 01:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Soory, but I don't understand this explanation. Should the article be under ambigous and less frequent name just because 6 months is a standard set by some regulation? Did Wikipedia lost its wiki status and some "legal" terms become more important than the content? WP:IAR. -Wikimol 15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Oppose. CDThieme 00:51, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support, though I won't cry if this fails either. Halibutt 17:36, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Discussion

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1. The article after my extension was mostly dealing with the whole mountain range, not only with the part on Czech side of the border. I apologize if it wasn't clear from the introduction. I don't know what it is supposed to be about now - every other statement lost sense / is wrong.
2. Ironically, the "English name" was included by a Czech wikipedian, almost a year after the creation of the article [3]. (Unfortunately I didn't noticed, it was marked as a minor edit.) Isn't it interesting none of the English speaking readers corrected the proper English name...?
   For reasons unknown to me, many Czechs believe the correct English name for the whole Sumava is Bohemian Forest. As was my case, when I noticed the article founded by The Singing Badger - but than I did some research on the actual usage and become convinced native English speakers use Sumava more often tahn Bohemian Forest. Bohemian Forest is usually translation of "something".
3. The problem is that "something". The name Bohemian Forest literally translates to Český les in Czech (and vice versa). But Český les are different mountains in SW bohemia, neighbouring Sumava. Bohemian Forest literally translates to Böhmerwald in German (and vice versa), which means approximately "Czech part of Sumava" in German. The last possibility is it is used for the whole mountain range.

--Wikimol 01:45, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

The nominator really should have waited 6 months rather than a month, before bringing this up. I believe 6 months is the standard waiting period in Wikipedia, before a requested move is attempted again. Marco79 17:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

It is not "attempted again". I want to reverse previous decision based IMO on poor information.

The "more English" argument... Well - in eastern Tureky is a mountain group called Altiparmak. The name can be translated as Six fingers. While "Six fingers" is "more English", it is probably never used. I'd say the correct name for Wikipedia article would be Altiparmak, even if it is not as English as "Six fingers". --Wikimol 15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I would like to ask those voting oppose to explain what do they propose the article should be about. If I take #1 Google reference on Bohemian Forest [4] I can learn

Bohemian Forest, Czech Český Les, Ger. Böhmerwald, mountain range, extending c.150 mi (240 km) along the S Czech-German border and extending into Austria. The Czech name for its southern section is Sumava.

1. Czech Český les is Böhmischer wald in German, not Böhmerwald.
2. Šumava isn't southern part of Český les. It's a different range.
3. Šumava isn't southern part of Böhmerwald in normal meaning. Böhmerwald is used exactly for Šumava or for it's Czech part. (The Bayerische part beeing called Bayerischer Wald)

Fortunately whatever meaning of the name, the fact it is a low mountain range along the S Czech-German border holds true, so why bother, after all?

IMO suitable content for Bohemian Forest would be kind of disambiguation page containing a map describing the nomenclature. Now I realize I could have created the disambiguation and moved the content back to Sumava withou asking for move on RFM... but I guess now it's too late, as if I do it now, it would be seen as an attempt to circumvent the important bureaucratic/democratic procedure :-( --Wikimol 15:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I think you should still be able to split out the part of the content that only concerns the Czech side to Šumava, but keep the page about geography and terminology at Bohemian Forest. Your argument about German usage is only about recent usage, BTW. de:Böhmerwald says it seems to have been the term for the whole mountain range (including what is now Bayrischer Wald) until the early 20th century. (Seems to be similar in English). Kusma (talk) 17:01, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Good idea. Make Bohemian Forest a disamb page with the terminology mess explained and links to three articles; one for "Šumava," one for "Český les," and one for "Bayerischer Wald" under whatever names deemed best. LuiKhuntek 20:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Result

Result: not moved. Eugene van der Pijll 20:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)