Talk:Borough

Definition

I think the present definition is too narrow; see e.g. http://www.xrefer.com/entry.jsp?xrefid=498536&secid=.-&hh=1 --css.

Question (both to the definition and to the appropriate use in city discussions): should we cross-link with non-English "boroughs"? For example, in my quest to understand local government where I currently live (Prague, Czechia), I ended up down a research rabbit hole that prompted me to create the page Boroughs in the Czech Republic. Now, they do not use anything etymologically related to the word "borough", but I don't have a better English word for the idea. I'm inclined to put a little sub-section and summary on this page, but thought I'd check with all of you, first. --Philolegein (talk) 05:46, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

NJ and PA

The term "borough" refers to municipalities. Not all municipalities are called boroughs (as there are cities, towns, townships, villages), but for governmental purposes a borough in NJ and PA is no different than any other incorporated municipality. In CT it's a different story, as a borough is just a section of a larger township.

Actually, Pennsylvania does not have villages. It has cities, townships, and boroughs. --Riley 05:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Paoli, PA is a village

Paoli, Pennsylvania is not an incorporated municipality. older ≠ wiser 19:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Some villages in Pennsylvania are signed as such, but there is no division of government in Pennsylvania known as a village. There is a division of government in Pennsylvania known as town, but the state has only one town, Bloomsburg in Columbia County. Besides Bloomsburg, incorporated communities in Pennsylvania are either cities or boroughs. --Damonbeau 18:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In New Jersey, a "borough" is a municipality with a particular form of municipal government. --71.247.77.207 03:57, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, not all boroughs in New Jersey follow that formula, and there are municipalities that do follow the formula that are not called boroughs.

Bur Dubai

I've often thought that Bur Dubai is a burgh of the UAE Emirate of Dubai. This would make a lot of sense based on the Scottish/English definition.

Borough or district?

I'm doing some research on local government infrastructure in the UK, but cannot find a definitive answer: what is the difference between a District council and a Borough council?

If I read this article correctly, each borough council in the country has the right to elect a mayor but DC's do not?

There is no practical difference in terms of administration; non-Metropolitan Local Authorities, whether called Boroughs or Districts (or Cities) have the same functions and terms of reference (excepting those which are Unitary or Metropolitan which are single-tier). However, the authorities called "Boroughs" are generally urban, or at least based on a town or city of some size, and geographically somewhat smaller; whereas "Districts" are generally rural or comprise of a number of smallish towns spread over a larger geographic area. Other than that, the differences are just ceremonial or historical, for example whether they have a Royal or City Charter. Districts_of_England gives a clearer overview. DWaterson 01:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation file

• the file does not work. Current link is Shawnc 00:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Pennsylvania boroughs

In Pennsylvania at least, a borough is a community without a large enough population to be classified as a city; most cities in PA started out as boroughs. I don't know if this is true in other states, so the statement "In some states of the U.S., such as Pennsylvania and New Jersey, a self-governing city or town is called a borough." may have been misleading, because it implies that all cities are boroughs. I replaced this wording in the article but I only really know about Pennsylvania, so my replacement may need fixing. ScottAlanHill 04:10, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

i live in pa, and a borough is a town, not a city. i don't know what it is officially, but that's what we call it here. --Colorfulharp233 10:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Boro?

Is this where the term "-boro" used in North Carolina comes from? For example: Greensboro, Goldsboro, Waynesboro, Asheboro, Carrboro, Tarboro, Roxboro, Bayboro, Bladenboro, Dillsboro, Ellenboro, Mooresboro... should i go on? :-)

I think so. A couple quotes from George R. Stewart's book Names on the Land, about placenames in the United States after the Revolution: "Any -ton along the eastern seaboard may formerly have been a -town, just as any -burg or -boro was probably once a -burgh or -borough. This last suffix declined. Unlike -burgh, it was thought to be too British. After the Revolution it was less commonly used, and some -boroughs actually changed their names." And, describing the Board on Geographic Names 1891 report on standardization recommendations for placename changes: "Names should avoid the possessive forms, diacritic characters, and hyphens. They should drop City and -town, the -h of -burgh, the -ugh of -borough, ..." For a few decades, many names were changed in these ways, until the fight over the final -h of Pittsburgh took the wind out of the Board's sails. Pfly 04:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

"Unlike -burgh, it was thought to be too British" - the aforesaid does not make sense. Sounds like a load of bollocks. -boro is an living wordbit in British placenames but moreso smaller places and fieldnames. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.249.160 (talk) 08:40, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Something needs to be said in the listing about "-boro" it is a commonly used part of many communities names. I assume it is a contraction of -borough, and it needs to be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phazer123 (talk • contribs) 02:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Definitions

I found this at http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/b/b0405800.html

1. A self-governing incorporated town in some U.S. states, such as New Jersey.

1. One of the five administrative units of New York City.

1. A civil division of the state of Alaska that is the equivalent of a county in most other U.S. states.

1. Chiefly British a. A town having a municipal corporation and certain rights, such as self-government. b. A town that sends a representative to Parliament.

1. A medieval group of fortified houses that formed a town having special privileges and rights.

--e. 00:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The British definition is somewhat archaic. Possibly better - a district, administered by an elected council, with a largely urban character and having had Borough status granted. Historically, a town with certain privileges granted by Royal Charter or later by Act of Parliament, or that sent a representative to parliament.

86.143.9.21 21:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Accuracy of the US section

I am about to tag the US section for accuracy because I believe that several statements are dubious and that the entire section could use a good fact-checking. For example:

• In most American uses of the term, a village is an incorporated, partially autonomous municipality which is subject to the supervisory authority of the township and county in which it is located. I know that this is true of some states, but I doubt that it's accurate to say that most American uses of the term follow that definition, since villages can also be special taxation districts rather than incorporated municipalities and can exist in states with no townships.
• Cities are invariably exempt from such supervisory authority in the United States. So cities in the U.S. are invariably independent cities? Sorry, but no.
• whereas most states use a three-tiered system of decentralization - state/county/township While it's true that some states are organized in that fashion, many aren't.

Doctor Whom 16:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You're spot on with your observations. It is difficult to make meaningful generalizations about local government in the U.S. as a whole without also including extensive qualifying statements. older ≠ wiser 16:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The term "village" is not used in Iowa, and frankly sounds quaint. A couple of suburbs of Chicago are styled "villages"; I believe that indicates something about the form of municipal government used, but I'm not sure of that. The usage purveyed as "most" in the article is the use in New York, which I explain to out-of-staters as meaning what "town" or "city" means most places; the term "town", I explain, refers to what is essentially a sub-county. Perhaps these uses aren't unique to New York; I had thought of the system as an entirely New York idiosyncracy. 71.247.77.207 03:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Sub-county as in Civil township? The Holland Land Company page has a nice map showing the counties and townships (called "towns") of Western New York. I grew up in the Village of Williamsville, in the Town of Amherst, Erie County, New York, and always thought it weird that one could live in a village AND a town. In Maine, the system is more confusing.. the whole state is divided into what look like the equivalent of townships, but some are called townships, some "plantations", some just "towns", and quite a few other names. They are properly called "minor civil divisions", I think. In Washington State there are no towns that I know of. Even though the land was surveyed under the Public Land Survey System into townships, local government within a county is either a "city" or "unincorporated county". The wide variety of local government systems, terms, and ways of dividing up land in the United States could be an article of its own... and maybe should be! Maybe it already is? Pfly 05:54, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

In New Jersey, villages and boroughs are types of (incorporated) municipalities, just like any other. Septentrionalis 19:08, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

There are also borough's in the Canadian province of Ontario (ex Scarborough, Peterborough). I have now added this Canking 22:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Canking, they are not boroughs. Although they have the word 'borough' in their names, they are not administrative boroughs, and borough is not part of their municipal title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.203.252 (talk) 08:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation

I think this needs to be developed further. In Scotland, the UK and Canada for example, it's pronounced differently than in the US. I know this was mentioned briefly but I think it needs expanding. Is it only these there countries that pronounce the ending like "bra" Canking 22:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Bury is not derived from Borough

Identifying the place-name element 'Bury' as being derived from Borough is inaccurate. 'Bury' is from Old English 'Burh', meaning a fortified place, a stronghold. It's been around as an English place-name element a lot longer than Borough has. Chronologically, Borough could've derived from Burh, but not vice-versa

Italian "borgo"

In Italy the word borgo (cognate to English borough) can also refer to simple city neighborhoods (especially historical neighborhoods), not necessarily self-governing. In this particular case, the meaning is very close to the word quartiere or rione, at least in everyday Italian language, and is also known as borgata.

In turn, when it comes to self-governing and administrative units within the city boundaries, we'd rather call that circoscrizione - I think it is roughly similar to the concept of district. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.30.213.239 (talk) 00:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Pori?

The Finnish word pori doesn't fit in the sentence, as the writer wanted to give example of Germanic words. In stead of English, Dutch, German and most Scandinavian tongues, Finnish is a Fin-Ugrian language, no Germanic (even no Indo-European). Sorry for my English. (: --84.26.31.157 (talk) 10:48, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Added burgh (and brough) re England in the foreword and under etymology

There was no mention of the existance of -burgh (and another derivation: -brough examples: Middlesbrough, Knaresbrough) in relation to England. Placenames ending in -burgh are somewhat more common and also older in England than Scotland, so righted this. Furthermore, added examples of English placenames which bear -burgh endings, the English and Dutch cognates: Tilbury, and Tilburg, and the Elsass German spelling: Strossburi to show the relationship between bury and buri. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:45:4B6E:5095:226:8FF:FEDC:FD74 (talk) 09:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Any possible relation with Thracian 'bria'?

Do you know whether the Germanic 'burg', 'borough', etc have any relation with the Thracian "bria" like in Mesembria? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.239.160 (talk) 17:06, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

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Duplication

There is a staggering degree of overlap/ duplication between the sections on History and Etymology. I will try to find time to streamline the two sections. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 07:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)