Talk:Borscht/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 09:55, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Will review. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 09:55, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Beautiful article! Here are my comments: Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 07:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Lead

• Can tart soup be linked?
  • Done. — Kpalion^(talk) 13:17, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
• usually include cabbage, carrots, onions, potatoes and tomatoes. I wonder if you need links here.
  • As this is a culinary article, I've tried to link all culinary items. I know onions and tomatoes may seem too familiar to be linked, but I make a point of keeping in mind that this article may be read by someone to whom European cookery is as exotic as Thai or Indonesian cuisine is to me. I just don't want to guess which of my everyday ingredients will be unfamiliar to them. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the clarification. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Etymology

• What is cognate?
  • Linked. — Kpalion^(talk) 13:20, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
• (see History below). No need to link "History" here. We have the Table of Contents.
  • Link removed. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:00, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Ingredients and preparation

• Source for the first line?
  • As the article is quite long, I've begun some of the longer sections with one or two introductory sentences (sort of mini-leads), which summarize the sourced information provided throughout the given section. I believe it would be redundant to repeat the citations there. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
    • I see. I hope others do not litter the article with citation needed tags... Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 11:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• white cabbage, carrots, parsley root, potatoes, onions, and tomatoes. I don't think we need to link carrots, potatoes, onions and tomatoes.
  • See above. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
• allspice, celery, parsley, marjoram, hot peppers The "celery" link here is a duplicate.
  • In the first instance I meant the celery root (celeriac), in the other – the stalks. I made it clear now. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Varieties

• include a monastic Lenten borscht What does "monastic" mean here?
  • It means that the recipe was devised by monks. Perhaps you could suggest a clearer wording? — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • I can't think of an alternate wording... we can keep this. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• In addition to the hearty, thick borschts described above, I am afraid this sounds a bit like a cookery book, somewhat promotional of Polish cuisine. It would be better to remove "hearty". Let the reader decide how the borschts look.
  • "Hearty" removed. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• A minor point. (flotsky borshch^[f]) We typically put it like this: (flotsky borshch)^[f] Same for (pork is never used^[30]) and ^{'sour soup'[j]}) There are some more instances in the following sections.
  • Done. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• In the summertime, cold borscht is a popular It is not clear if we are still in Poland.
  • We're still in Eastern Europe, more generally. The climate is similar throughout the region. Do you think this needs to be clarified? — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • I don't think so, I expect anyone into the article should understand this. I was just not very sure, so sought to confirm it. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• The mixture has a distinctive lively pink color "lively" may be an overstatement, just "distinctive" would do.
  • Removed. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• Duplicate link: Ashkenazi Jews, buttermilk (such as whey or buttermilk)
  • Duplicate links removed. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• Why is "e" of "Eastern" in caps in Eastern Europe?
  • It's the name of a cultural-geographic region. Our article, Eastern Europe uses the same capitalization. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• While the deep red color of beetroot borscht may bring blood to the minds of the uninitiated Sounds a bit unencyclopedic, can we say "While the deep red color of beetroot borscht may remind the layman/novice of blood"?
  • Reworded. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• animal blood mixed with vinegar Which animals?
  • Any farm animal will probably do, but the source does specifically mention goose and chicken. I've added "usually poultry" in parenthesis. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• The Mennonites are a group of Dutch or German religious dissidents who settled in Poland and Russia before migrating to North America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Not relevant to our purpose, links are there to inform the reader on this.
  • Removed. — Kpalion^(talk) 11:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Garnishes and sides

• You can check for duplinks in the article yourself using this.
  • Done. And thanks, I didn't know this tool. — Kpalion^(talk) 12:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Quite a helpful one. :) Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• but a range of more involved sides exists as well. Source?
  • This is meant as an introduction to the following two paragraphs, where the more involved sides are described (and cited). — Kpalion^(talk) 12:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Oh, I see. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

History

• (see Etymology above) Link not needed.
  • Done. — Kpalion^(talk) 12:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• The Slavs collected hogweed in May What season would that be? Summer? May be a helpful addition.
  • I would think it's quite obvious from the context that we're talking about the northern hemisphere, where May corresponds to late spring. If you're convinced that this needs clarification, how would you suggest to phrase it? — Kpalion^(talk) 12:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • No rewords needed, I was just not sure if my idea of the climate is correct, so I confirmed it. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
• Beets (Beta vulgaris), Is it not too late to introduce beet? I think we can do without its scientific name here.
  • Beetroot is linked early in the article, but it takes you to an article about the taproot of a specific cultivar of the plant. Here, in the history section, we introduce Beta vulgaris as a wild plant ("a plant native to the Mediterranean Basin") and follow with the history of its domestication ("was already grown in antiquity...") and development of modern cultivars ("Beet cultivars with round, red, sweet taproots, known as beetroots, were not reliably reported until the 12th century..."). — Kpalion^(talk) 12:24, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Thanks for the clarification. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

In culture

• According to Meek Who is he/she?
  • "James Meek, a British correspondent in Kiev and Moscow," has been already introduced in the last paragraph of the history section. — Kpalion^(talk) 12:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • Oh, forgot that. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• Slight paraphrasing possible. Check for details here.
  • It looks like these are all false positives. The article contains several direct quotations, which are clearly marked as such and attributed. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:24, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

• Images: The article looks a bit overladen with images.
  • Well, I disagree. I think the number of pictures is just enough to illustrate the diversity of colors, textures and possible ways of serving the soup. They were all carefully picked from a much larger number of borscht pictures we have at Commons. The way the article looks will depend heavily on your screen settings, but I haven't noticed a problem with text being sandwiched between images. — Kpalion^(talk) 12:31, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
    • I don't see any squashing of the text. It is your choice as you should know what is best for the article. :) I guess I was stunned at such a gallery of beautiful images because I don't come across such vibrant articles very often. Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 12:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

That should be it. I am satisfied with your replies till now. These done, I would be happy to promote this beautiful article. Cheers, Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 10:07, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Kpalion, you have been very quick and clear in your response. I believe this article is ready for promotion. Glad to pass this. Cheers! Sainsf <^>_{Feel at home} 13:01, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing this article, Sainsf! I'm glad you liked it. — Kpalion^(talk) 17:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)