Talk:Bournemouth/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 19:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Well my dad grew up here and I have fond memories of playing on the beach at Durley Chine, so how could I not review this? I'll read through the whole article now and probably leave comments tomorrow. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 19:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

General

• No dablinks
• Stable

Lead

• I'm not sure about putting "ceremonial county of Dorset" in the opening sentence. The evolution of local government (no part of Bournemouth 50 years ago was in Dorset, for instance), particularly since it's now self-governed, makes it complicated. Also this DEFRA source you used explicitly marks Bournemouth (and Poole) outside of what it calls Dorset. By all means mention government changes in the second paragraph, but for the opening, I would say it's proximity to the New Forest (neighbouring Christchurch UA borders the national park in places) is more relevant to a layman or foreign reader (as South East Dorset conurbation states)

  Done - I have placed the bit about the ceremonial county in the second paragraph as you suggest. Instead of the New Forest, I've mentioned its proximity to the Jurassic Coast as this is already cited in the article.--Ykraps (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• " Initially marketed as a..." - could this sentence be split into two

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• The lead could mention some of the more notable landmarks, particularly the Grade I listed ones.

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Toponomy

• "A bourne being a small stream" - this sentence doesn't have a finite verb. I'd suggest something like "The name "bourne" means a small stream"

  Done - "The word bourne..."--Ykraps (talk) 16:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• "From the latter half of the 15th century "Bourne Mouth" seems to be preferred" - by whom?

  Done - In addition to turning up on maps of that period, it is also recorded in surveys and soldier's reports, most notably a survey for James Blount, 6th Baron Mountjoy and a report on possible enemy landing sights by Henry Wriothesley, 2nd Earl of Southampton. Both these people are mentioned later on in the article so didn't want to say too much in 'Toponomy' but have added a bit. See what you think.--Ykraps (talk) 16:26, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

  Oops, sorry, we are talking about the late 1500s here which is the latter half of the 16th century. I have corrected the sentence.--Ykraps (talk) 18:16, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• Names - This website contains a variety of maps in Hampshire, and includes Bournemouth. I see a reference to "Bourne mouth" (a literal description, pointing to the mouth of the river) on an 1836. Have a look and see if you can find anything else. Edit - I notice Hillbillyholiday81 (talk · contribs) has already directed you there. The other ones I can suggest are the National Library of Scotland map archive and SABRE Maps, which has a bunch of "Historic OS Maps" (mostly from the 20th century) on the left hand menu.

History

• The previous section said "latter half of the 15th century". This one starts "In the twelfth century." WP:CENTURY doesn't say to use one or the other style when naming centuries, so just pick one and make everything match consistently

  Done - Wikipedia:Numbers#Numbers_as_figures_or_words says either is okay but in my experience it's more often figures so I've changed to that.--Ykraps (talk) 18:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• Pages in British History Online are actually reprints of out of copyright books, so can be cited via {{cite book}} with full author / editor name and original publisher. See "page, William, ed (1911)" in Bramshill House for an example of this.

  Done - Okay, have changed to cite book template.--Ykraps (talk) 22:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Although the Dorset and Hampshire region surrounding it had been the site of human settlement for thousands of years" - are you sure about that? Large amounts of it, as mentioned above, are part of the New Forest

  Pretty much, there were settlements to the east (Christchurch) and west (Poole) and settlements to the north along the River Stour (Holdenhurst, Throop, Kinson etc). I can see how this might be confusing though so any suggestions about how to make it clearer would be welcome. Perhaps, "Although the immediate Dorset and Hampshire region..."?--Ykraps (talk) 22:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I meant to take this comment out - I'm happy with what's in the article as is. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "where in 1932, a skull thought to be 5,500 years old was found" - suggest "where a skull thought to be 5,500 years was found in 1932" as it seems to scan better

  Done - Agreed, changed as per your suggestion.--Ykraps (talk) 22:53, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bronze Age burials ... suggests there may" - should read "suggest" as there's more than one burial

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 07:15, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "also have been a settlements there" - problem with grammar here

  Done - I have removed the word also which makes it read better.--Ykraps (talk) 07:15, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• The next clause about Hengistbury Head, could go in a separate sentence. Also might be worth mentioning it's much older than the surrounding bits of Bournemouth

  Done - I assume you mean the settlement was older not Hengistbury Head. I had already given the period but have clarified as per your suggestion.--Ykraps (talk) 07:15, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "alum" should be wikilinked

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 07:28, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "No-one lived at the mouth of the Bourne river however" - "however" is redundant

  Done - Okay, changed.--Ykraps (talk) 07:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "before the 19th century," - don't need the comma

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 07:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The area would have been well known" - should be "The area was well known"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 08:02, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Lewis Tregonwell" should be "Tregonwell" per WP:LASTNAME. This sentence may read better split into two.

  I think now "would have been" has been removed it reads much better but if it's a deal breaker I suppose I could change to, "The area was well known to Tregonwell. During the Napoleonic wars he spent much of his time searching the heath and coastline for French invaders and smugglers".--Ykraps (talk) 08:02, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem with that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "had died, in 1832," - don't need to the first comma

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 08:02, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth had grown into small community" - should be "into a small community"

  Done - Damn! That was one of the mistakes I noticed when I copy read the article. Obviously I forgot to go back and change it.--Ykraps (talk) 08:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "'Invalids walk'" - don't need the quotes. Also is "walk" definitely in lower case? (ie: not the same as Birdcage Walk)

  Done - Yes, it is upper case in the source so have changed.--Ykraps (talk) 07:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "In 1835, after the death of Sir George Ivison Tapps" - "Sir George Ivison Tapps" should just read "Tapps"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 09:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth started to grow at a faster rate as George William" - "George William" should read "Tapps-Gervis"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 09:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Despite enormous investment, the town failed to take off" - I'm not sure about "take off". In what way was it unsuccessful?

  Okay, perhaps that is a harsh interpretation. The source talks about the small number of visitors compared to the other resorts. I have modified the sentence to reflect this.--Ykraps (talk) 09:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "described health resorts around the country and as" needs a comma between "country" and "and"

  Done - Agreed.--Ykraps (talk) 09:34, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Dr Granville" should just read "he", as Granville is the only person mentioned in the entire sentence

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 09:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "medicinal use of the seawater" - shouldn't that just be "medicinal use of seawater"

  Done - Okay. I think I was thinking of it as Bournemouth's seawater but I suppose it's all the same seawater.--Ykraps (talk) 09:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "as well as the growth of visitors ... helped the town to grow" - this probably wants rewording. "The growth helped the town to grow" doesn't scan right

  Done - I have changed to 'increase' in one instance and shortened the sentence somewhat.--Ykraps (talk) 10:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "alongside the bourne stream" - should "bourne" be in lower case?

  Done - Yes, I think it is used as a proper noun in the case.--Ykraps (talk) 10:23, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Many of these paths including the 'Invalids walk'" - same issue as above

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 09:34, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Holdenhurst parish council" - should be all in caps

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 10:23, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "reluctant to find the money however" - either put However at the front of the sentence or leave it out

  Done - Okay, have left out.--Ykraps (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Act of 1856, granted" - comma isn't needed here

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "approved that same year" - should be simply "approved that year"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "A number of wooden structures were built" - were these earlier piers, being ultimately replaced by the 1880 one?

  Yes. There is more detail in the Landmarks section.--Ykraps (talk) 10:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The arrival of the railways in 1870 allowed a massive growth" - "allowed" doesn't sound right. How about "saw a massive growth"

  Done - The railway was the direct cause of the growth so I think 'precipitated' is a better word.--Ykraps (talk) 10:14, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "In 1880 the town" - needs a comma between "1880" and "the"

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 10:59, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "at the foot of the chines" - wikilink Chine

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 10:59, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The Royal National Lifeboat Institution stationed an inshore lifeboat at Bournemouth in 1965 but it was withdrawn in 1972." Do we know why it was withdrawn?

  No. I assume it was a financial decision and, with lifeboats at Christchurch and Poole, coverage was sufficient. This piece of information was already in the article and I toyed with removing altogether as I thought it a bit trivial. I'm not one for deleting other people's work without good reason so it stayed. What do you think?

I would just simply say it was stationed at Bournemouth from 1965 to 1972 and leave it at that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:25, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done --Ykraps (talk) 00:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Coverage for the area has otherwise been provided from Poole Lifeboat Station" - missing a full stop

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 11:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "A large conference and exhibition centre, the Bournemouth International Centre" - swap these two clauses round. State the BIC, then say what it is"

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 11:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "in 1984 and in 1985" - suggest "in 1984, and the following year"

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 11:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• Is George Monbiot's blog a reliable source? The other source cited the information in the previous sentence anyway. Also I'd recommend using {{cite news}} for this source. The work is the Dorest Echo, not This is Dorset.

  Done - I have replaced these two references with another.--Ykraps (talk) 11:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The Waterfront complex..." - I'd suggest reworking this paragraph. Start off with its construction year, then explain it was intended to hold the cinema, then the architecture, then the negative responses to it, and finally the demolition.

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 11:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "In 2012, Bournemouth was unsuccessful" - normally we try and avoid single sentence paragraphs. However, it doesn't fit in with the context of anything else in this section. You could try putting in a quote from somebody responding to the decision not to award it city status.

  This sentence was initially in the lead but needed moving to main text. I am aware of the guideline but I couldn't find anywhere better to put it and think it is an interesting piece of information. As the guideline is not a policy, I ask you to overlook this. I will continue to think about how the sentence can be expanded.--Ykraps (talk) 11:37, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I have consulted the Gospel according to St Manuel of Style and it says for a GA they are discouraged but not a deal breaker, so I'm not going to let this hold the review up. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Governance

• "the Bournemouth Borough Council is elected every four years" - the BBC source doesn't directly say this. The page shows old results for 1999 and 1996, not a gap of four years

  Done - I have added a reference for this.--Ykraps (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "For 2013–14 the mayor is Councillor Rod Cooper" - should be "The current mayor is Rod Cooper" (unless mayors are honorifically referred to as "Councillor", which I don't think they are)

  Done - I'm not sure so have removed.--Ykraps (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth East and Bournemouth West" (parliamentary constituencies) should have wikilinks.

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 12:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Geography

• "Bournemouth is located 105 miles from London" needs a source. Google Maps from Charing Cross to Bournemouth Pier via the Great Chertsey Road shows 104 miles.

  Of course it depends where the measurements are taken from and not being responsible for that sentence, I'm no wiser than you. It is obviously a via road distance though. In the past I have quoted 'as the crow flies' distances. Which do you think is better?--Ykraps (talk) 12:58, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

If you can find a source for "as the crow files", use that. If you can't, I think you're allowed to cite Google Maps road directions as a source (it's a reputable company and you can't change the directions without going through strict editorial channels), so I'd do that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:38, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done --Ykraps (talk) 00:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "while the River Bourne, rises" doesn't need a comma

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 13:30, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "at Bournemouth where it bisects the town centre" - the source given just states it flows through the "heart of Bournemouth" (unless I missed it)

  I have interpreted 'heart' to mean centre. If you draw a line through the centre of something, you divide it in two (bisect).--Ykraps (talk) 14:24, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I see what you mean, but for me, "bisecting" is more akin to something like the Berlin Wall - the Bourne goes through the town but it doesn't chop it in two distinct pieces that don't mix! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:38, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done - Okay, I accept that as a valid point of view and have simply said that it flows through the middle.--Ykraps (talk) 00:36, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

"I'm not monotonous, I just lack variety. Are there peas for dinner, Norma?"

• "The area's geology is monotonous" - can you clarify what you mean by "monotonous". Monotonous redirects to boring and there is no disambiguation page

  Mmm, I think that is inappropriate redirection. Monotonous means the same, unvarying. It is sometimes used to mean boring but only when the cause of the boredom is something that is unvarying. I have changed to "lacks variety"--Ykraps (talk) 13:10, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, it's been a while since we've had such a charismatic leader :) --Ykraps (talk) 00:36, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• The link for the BGS source appears to have changed and it's no longer obvious where exactly the information is cited

  Done - I have located the new viewer although this reference is only supplemental as Wightman's book gives all the information required.--Ykraps (talk) 14:09, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "a 36 Hectare site most of which is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest" - the source given, though, states "The entire site is a Local Nature Reserve covering 36.15 Ha but only 23.53 Ha is SSSI." which is a slightly different emphasis

  Done - Personally, I consider 23 from 35 to be most but I've changed the wording to "much of which.."--Ykraps (talk) 14:32, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Small populations of Exmoor pony and Highland cattle help to maintain the area." - the source says "Shetland cattle"

  Done - Changed to agree with reference. I thought at first they had changed the information on their website but I've just checked with Wayback Machine and it appears not.--Ykraps (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Areas within Bournemouth" - single sentence paragraph. For a second sentence, you could maybe add a paragraph saying if there are any areas outside of the town centre with some degree of autonomy (eg: Wimborne Road is - or at least was a typical high street with shops away from the centre - see here), although this is mentioned in "Economy" further down.

  Done - Added to the end of the first paragraph instead.--Ykraps (talk) 15:12, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Climate

• "annual and daily temperatures:" semicolon should be colon or (even better) a new sentence

  ? - It looks like a colon (:) to me, but my eyesight's not what it was. :)--Ykraps (talk) 15:18, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Nor is my ability to say what I mean? ;-D ... I meant "colon" should be semicolon or (even better) a new sentence Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:26, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done - I have gone for a new sentence. Whether the first sentence is actually introducing the following information is a moot point.--Ykraps (talk) 00:43, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Demography

• " Black British, black African, black Caribbean" - is the correct use of caps here?

  I would say so, yes. This article [[1]] talks about white (lower case) South Africans but it is from the Daily Mail so I'm not sure it proves much. :)--Ykraps (talk) 15:29, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Residents with two or more A-levels .... comprise 20.2%. A degree, such as ... is possessed by 15.8%" Probably easier to say "20.2% had two or more A-levels, while 15.8% had a degree...."

  The sentence is phrased like that to avoid starting the sentence with a number which according to Wikipedia:Numbers#Numbers is to be avoided. I'll have a think about how to make it more readable.--Ykraps (talk) 16:00, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I've had a look at the MOS and all it says it to use words and "per-cent". However, I think that makes it look even worse. My advice would be to find a FA quality article on a town (Sale, Greater Manchester is the first one I can think of) and copy that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:50, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done - That was a struggle but I think I've managed it.--Ykraps (talk) 01:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Those who are 85 years and over comprise 3.3% of the population,". Likewise, easier to say "3.3% are 85 and over"

  Done - As above, this was done to avoid starting with a number, but I have managed to re-word it.--Ykraps (talk) 16:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "and indeed 9% of the current population are between twenty and twenty four" - don't need to say "indeed" and numbers should be in digits, not names, to be consistent with the rest of this section

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 15:48, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "sectors which through 2011, continued" - don't need the comma

  Done - (I think), Is this comment supposed to be in the Economy section? It's the only place I could find that phrase.--Ykraps (talk) 15:52, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Economy

• "£125million a" - missing space

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 16:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Although an independent report published in 2012, indicates there has been a rise in antisocial behaviour." - this doesn't scan quite right. Also, worth saying (as the BBC source does) that there is a correlation between the increase in nightlife and antisocial behaviour

  Done - Have rewritten to include your suggestion. See what you think.--Ykraps (talk) 16:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Those of working age, make up" - don't need the comma

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 09:53, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Employment by sector (2011)" - the figures in this table don't match what's in the source

  The figures have been converted to percentages and the sums are shown as hidden text (click edit to view). I think this is acceptable under Wikipedia:CALC#Routine_calculations. I managed to get Dorset through FAC with similar calculations in any event.--Ykraps (talk) 16:50, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Of those employed in Bournemouth based industries ...." (down to the end of the paragraph) - the ONS source for this seems to now be a dead link

  It's okay for me. Are you downloading the document (it comes up in MS Excel)?--Ykraps (talk) 16:59, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

  I've replaced the url with one that goes direct to the Excel document so should be easier.--Ykraps (talk) 15:39, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that works fine now. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:51, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Culture

• "It has a thriving youth culture" - according to whom exactly?

  Rawling's book talks specifically about it and attributes it to the large student population. There are a number of newspaper articles, already cited which talk about 'stag culture' and the increase in groups of young people to the town. Is it the wording you have an issue with?--Ykraps (talk) 08:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, just attribute the "thriving" to whoever claimed it ie: "According to Keith Rawlings, local journalist, etc etc".... Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:18, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Done --Ykraps (talk) 02:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth has become a popular nightlife destination with UK visitors" - we've already mentioned this in "Economy", although I see the two areas don't totally overlap. Also should say "for UK visitors"

  I agree there is some overlap but feel it is important to both sections and I've tried to avoid any repetition. Is it not "popular with" not "popular for"?--Ykraps (talk) 08:37, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

A very good question! I've done a search for "popular with" versus "popular for" and can't find a definitive answer. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Major venues for concerts include BIC". Define "the Bournemouth International Centre (BIC)" once, then use the acronym.

  Done - I have noted this in the History section which is the first instance outside of the lead. Or do you think it should be done in the lead?--Ykraps (talk) 08:52, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I think it can go in the lead, being a major centre for national politics. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:58, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay, done.--Ykraps (talk) 02:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "the BIC is also a popular place for the conferences" - what conferences. Should say something closer to "the BIC is also a popular location for political party conferences"

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 09:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The O2 and Pavilion are less modern, opening in 1895 and 1929 respectively. They are both grade II listed buildings" - there are too many short sentences here. Also "less modern" is a really a matter of opinion. I'd probably say "The O2 opened as the Boscombe Grand Theatre in 1895, (add brief condensed history, noting what bands played there when it was the Bournemouth Hippodrome perhaps) and was Grade II listed in (year). The Pavilion opened in 1929 (brief description and year listed."

  Done - added a piece about each. --Ykraps (talk) 02:04, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "grade II" should be in caps and wikilinked to Listed building#Categories of listed building

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 02:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "grade II* listed, villa" as above, should be "Grade II listed villa" (plus Grade II wikilinked above)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 02:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "when ownership passed to Bournemouth corporation" should be "when ownership passed to The Bournemouth Corporation"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 02:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Winter Gardens" should wikilink to Bournemouth Winter Gardens (Minor trivia - I played in a military band concert here in about 1988)

  Done - I saw a lot of bands there but not military ones. I thought the acoustics were superior to the BIC.--Ykraps (talk) 10:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, it's more what Wikipedia would describe as a concert band, though the music itself (things like Ralph Vaughan Williams' "English Folk Song Suite") was described as "military band". Anyway, I digress. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:40, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "the orchestra is now based in Poole" - is that because the Winter Gardens was demolished?

  The Wikipedia article suggests that is the case but I thought they went to the BIC first.--Ykraps (talk) 10:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "literature, and music; which was" - don't need the semicolon

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 10:36, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bourne Free is held in the town" - needs to define what it is (ie: an event)

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 10:57, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The air festival attracts up to a million people over the four-day event" - the source reported it did so in 2012 but didn't say that it generally does every year

  Well it attracts up to but not always exactly a million, no. 2009 was another year when a million people came [[2]]. I could add this reference too?--Ykraps (talk) 10:57, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Tack the additional source on the end of the sentence and keep the text as is. That should suffice. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Done --Ykraps (talk) 16:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• The Tolkein source mentions his house was subsequently demolished, which might be worth popping in the article at the end of this paragraph

  Done--Ykraps (talk) 11:21, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• Worth mentioning (as stated in the BBC source) that although Mary Shelley is buried in Bournemouth, she never went there (at least alive!)

  The source says she never lived there. I believe she went there on a number of occasions but died before the house was completed, which is stated in the article.--Ykraps (talk) 11:08, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah okay, good point. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bryson had this to say" - the quote sounds a bit too whimsical for a Wikipedia article. Keep some of it, but trim it down and keep it inline with the rest of the paragraph

  Done - The piece was added in good faith by a new editor and I didn't want to put him off by removing it so I left it in knowing full well it would be picked up at GAN. I have kept the reference to Bryson and his book but removed the quote which as you say is 'whimsical'.--Ykraps (talk) 16:08, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not so new anymore! How about this quote from John Betjeman:

..one of the few English towns that one can safely call "her". First and Last Loves John Betjeman

Betjeman's poem that mentions Bournemouth is here:John Betjeman Collected Poems

Bournemouth's looking up, I'm glad to say

That Modernistic there has come to stay.

I walk the asphalt paths of Branksome Chine

In resin-scented air like strong Greek wine.

The Echo also mentions that:

Poet laureate John Betjeman was founding president of Bournemouth Civic Society and described St Stephen’s Church as "the most beautiful Victorian church in the south-west".[3] -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 20:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello HBH. No, you're no longer a newbie and I hope you haven't taken umbrage at what's been said here, no offence meant. I see Betjeman's been kinder to Bournemouth than he was to Slough.--Ykraps (talk) 09:13, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Landmarks

• "grade I" / "grade II" - caps generally throughout this section

  Done - I think I've got them all.--Ykraps (talk) 16:35, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "St Peter's church" - "church" should be capitalised. "grade I" - see previous notes. Whole sentence is a bit confusing. Why not say "Bournemouth has three Grade I listed churches, St Peter's in the town centre, St Stephen's in (location) and St Clemment's in (location)"

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 16:35, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Its chancel has been described" by whom?

  Done - Attributed to Simon Jenkins.--Ykraps (talk) 17:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Mary Shelley" is already wikilinked earlier - per WP:OVERLINK it doesn't need to be done a second time

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 17:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The unusual tower lacks a spire" - don't need "unusual" and the "lacks a spire" can be put onto the end of the previous sentence

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth pier" - "pier" should be in caps

  Done - Think I've got every instance.--Ykraps (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "pier at Boscombe" - use "Boscombe Pier" (with wikilink)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Added in 1958, the boomerang-shaped entrance kiosk" - say "The boomerang-shaped entrance kiosk was added in 1958". Also, you probably want to put this before the theatre, as it was built earlier, so the paragraph lists changes in chronological order.

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "a cast iron structure in 1880, costing almost £22,000" - the source doesn't seem to have the figure given

  Done - The source states that, "Eugenius Birch designed the 838 foot iron pier at a cost of £21,600" but I consider these sort of figures meaningless unless accompanied by a present day equivalent, and so have removed it.--Ykraps (talk) 18:07, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "In 1905, Bournemouth Pier was extended to 305 metres" - the source says there were two extensions, one in 1894, one in 1905

  Done - I think that got lost in a copyedit.--Ykraps (talk) 18:22, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth town hall" - caps

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "first world war" - caps (and wikilink)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Sport

• "next to the airport" - what airport? (This is its first mention in the article)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "where it hosts an annual sevens" - change to "where it hosts an annual rugby sevens" (with wikilink)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:37, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Bournemouth Cricket Club, also" - don't need the comma

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:42, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The Bournemouth International Centre" - since you've defined this earlier, you can just use BIC here

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Established in 1865, the Westover and Bournemouth Rowing Club" - put the "established" bit later in the sentence

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "Other watersports popular in the bay" - what bay?

  Well the bay is called Poole Bay which I think might be confusing for some so I have called it Bournemouth Bay and linked it to Poole Bay.--Ykraps (talk) 19:02, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

• "the reef has failed to live up to expectations" - I think we need to be more specific - say it was delayed, and was costing more than £3M (plus anything else of interest in the source)

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 19:40, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Education

• "Bournemouth has two universities: Bournemouth University and Arts University Bournemouth both" - needs a comma after "both"

  Do you mean before "both"?--Ykraps (talk) 19:47, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Indeed I do. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 01:00, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Done--Ykraps (talk) 09:42, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Transport

Road

• "broadly east" - I'd leave these two words out - looking at a map, it seems to run more north

  Done - The road only turns north once it has left the borough. Through the borough it runs east apart from a small section which runs north-east, hence "broadly east". In the past the sentence has read: north, north-east and east. To avoid further discussion, I have removed it completely as per your suggestion.--Ykraps (talk) 20:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Rail

• "Bournemouth is well served by the rail network" - sure, if you want to go to London or Weymouth, otherwise forget it! I'd reword this

  Done - I think it just meant that rail access to the town was good because it had two stations but I can see how that might be misconstrued and have removed.--Ykraps (talk) 09:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• I think it's worth mentioning former rail routes, such as the lines to Salisbury and Templecombe, both of which (I presume) fell foul to the Beeching Axe

  Hmm, the problem I have with that is that it then attracts huge swathes of nostalgic ramblings from train enthusiasts.--Ykraps (talk) 09:19, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I still think a sentence is worth adding. If the article gets attacked by trainspotters, you'll be within policy to revert (mostly per WP:DUE). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:09, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Done - Okay, I have added a short sentence at the end.--Ykraps (talk) 11:12, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I believe the line closed before Beeching BTW.--Ykraps (talk) 09:21, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's my trainspotter credentials destroyed then! ;-) Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:10, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Air

I think this paragraph needs a bit more at the front. When was the airport originally built and what did it serve? I'd suggest looking at RAF Hurn (which is the airport in its former guise), but that doesn't have much in the way of sources

Done - I've added a short sentence but have similar reservations to the one I have about the Rail section.--Ykraps (talk) 11:14, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I've added a 'see also' template directing to History_of_Bournemouth#History_of_transport_in_Bournemouth which I hope will help lessen the impact.--Ykraps (talk) 11:49, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Sport

• "National League Division Two South" - can you wikilink this?

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 22:46, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Religion

• Some of the content here is duplicated in the "Landmarks" section

  Okay, I have made some minor alterations to both sections to keep any repetition to the bare minimum.--Ykraps (talk) 12:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• "The Bournemouth Islamic Centre, provides" - comma not needed

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 12:32, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

See also

• Don't need to list List of schools in Bournemouth as it's already mentioned as a main article

  Done - removed.--Ykraps (talk) 12:36, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Sources

• Personally I prefer using {{sfn}} for book references, but plain text ones are perfectly acceptable

  Okay, thanks for the tip. I may start using myself from now on.--Ykraps (talk) 12:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Images

• File:Invalids' walk, Bournemouth, Dorset, England, 1890s.jpg's copyright says "This image may not be in the public domain in countries other than Switzerland." From my experience, a photo asserted to be taken in 1895 with no contrary evidence tends to be acceptably tagged with {{PD-1923}} File:Entrance to the pier, Bournemouth, England, 1890s.jpg is similar and tagged this way.

  Okay, I will need some help over at commons so may need some time to put right.--Ykraps (talk) 12:40, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I wouldn't let this hold up your GA. If every other issue is resolved (and a cursory look suggests it is), I'll just comment the image out and pass the review anyway. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:50, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. I'm just waiting on a reply here [[4]]. I think this is the only issue outstanding but there's so much wood, I can't really see the trees.:)--Ykraps (talk) 16:48, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Done --Ykraps (talk) 17:41, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

• The caption to File:Boscombe pier entrance by David Dixon.jpg doesn't make it obvious that it's Boscombe Pier, or that the quotation was attributed to Wayne Hemingway

  Done --Ykraps (talk) 12:40, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

GA Checklist

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I think all the issues listed above should be relatively easy to solve, so I'm putting the review On hold pending completion of them. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:22, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

I've checked everything, and everything looks good. This is a great introduction to anyone about Bournemouth. And because the average viewing traffic is over 250,000 a year, you get a free Quarter Million Award thrown in. Well done! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:49, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Phew, I'm glad that's over. I told the misses I was taking time off work to do some decorating and she's wondering why it's not getting done! Thanks for the thorough review and the award which is an added bonus. Regards--Ykraps (talk) 07:21, 1 October 2013 (UTC)