Talk:Brian Carbury

Court-martial?

This entry in the "No. 35319". The London Gazette. 21 October 1941. {{cite magazine}}: Check date values in: |date= (help) indicates that Carbury was thrown out of the RAF on 1 October 1941 following a court-martial. I'm a bit wary of adding this to the article without some definite indication that this wasn't cancelled (the Gazette search is a bit hit-and-miss), and without any idea of the context or what he was chargd with. David Underdown (talk) 10:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. It doesn't contradict the other sources, since they say he didn't fly again operationally after early 1941 - perhaps they've deliberately left something out. On the other hand, I couldn't find anything else about a court martial on the web either. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Precisely, I can well see why a court-martial might be glossed over, but without further info it's still a bit speculative. I know someone who may have access to better sources, if I remember to ask him. Looks like primary sources would be available: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=61#7 David Underdown (talk) 14:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Still nothing on the court martial, but I did find a Times report of a later escapade! David Underdown (talk) 14:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Well done finding that story, makes the court martial sound a bit less surprising... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Finally ahd chance to talk to the chap. Didn't know anything offhand but he's got a book which gives details of the subsequent careers of all BofB pilots, so he should let me know what that says. He also pointed out that if Carbury were re-instated he would appear in subsequent RAF Lists, which I may be able to track down. David Underdown (talk) 19:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

You're a terrier, mate - keep it up! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Right, according to Men of the Battle of Britain, Wynn, Kenneth G., CCB Associates, 1999 (2nd, 60th anniversary, edition), ISBN 1 902 074106 he continued to serve as a flying instructor until 1944 with 58 OTU at Grangemouth. Still no mention of a court-martial, but I'm told it's extremely odd for someone to have spent that long as instructor, people were normally rotated back on to operational flying after 6 months or so. Think I'll have to try and have a look at the court-martial records. David Underdown (talk) 19:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Have now checked the Air Force lists, he is listed in Septemeber 1941, and then disappears from November 1941 on (I looked in every List up to January 1946, they were mostly published every two months). That would be consistent with the Gazette notice, but the Wynn book seems to imply he was kept on in smoe capacity, even if not as an officer. Curiourser and curiouser. David Underdown (talk) 14:43, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Return to Scotland

Carbury must have returned north with the squadron in Dcember, or he wouldn't have been flying with them over St Abb's Head on Christmas day. I've checked the original combat report, and Carbury defintiely states that he was flying with "Blue section 603 Squadron". David Underdown (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

David - Carbury did returned north with the squadron in late 1940, then left them in January 1941. The squadron returned south in either Easter or June 1941, as they were undertaking "rhubarbs" into France that summer. Hence the edit change I made, as it originally read that neither Carbury NOR the squadron returned south - which was incorrect. Rgds, - Trident13 (talk) 13:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, your edit summary was rather ambiguous, so I missed the point. David Underdown (talk) 13:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brian Carbury/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 14:51, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Second World War

• Link Luftwaffe

• Done. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• I'd say it's best to go ahead and directly state that the Brits and the Germans were combatting when the war is first brought up

• I have revised the end of the previous section to clarify. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• "although was unable to pursue it due to a lack of fuel" - My gut instinct says there should be "he" between although and was, although this may be an ENGVAR issue

• I thought it acceptable to not have "he", but have rephrased. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Another was shot down in southeast London on 7 October" - It's not explicit if this is courtesy of Carbury or not

• Made explicit. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• "On Christmas Day Carbury took off in pursuit" - Comma after Day

• Done. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Link flight lieutenant. It's obvious from the prose that this is an impersonation of a higher-ranking officer, but how much higher flight lieutenant is over Carbury's rank isn't really obvious.

• Done. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• "He divorced his wife and later remarried." - Shouldn't this be in the Later life section? Unless it was occurring simultaneously with the courtmartial.

• The source is not clear on when it happened. My suspicion is that it happened around the courtmartial or perhaps shortly afterwards, so my preference is to leave it where it is. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Later life

• "of Bristol Beaufighters to Palestine" - The whole region, or a specific country? The trial was in 1949, so the transition from Mandatory Palestine (pre-1948) to Israel, especially with the whole 1948 Arab–Israeli War may play a role in this. Don't get lost in this in the article, but if a specific part of Palestine is known, it would be worth specifying, given all of the craziness going on there in 1949 and the preceeding years.

• Good point, I have linked to Mandatory Palestine instead, which I think is more appropriate. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Other

• The second external link doesn't seem to be working. Even if it did work, I think the description makes it sound like it'd violate WP:ELNO #6

• Deleted. I didn't know about that ELNO #6 criteria. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• It's in Category:1962 deaths, despite the article claiming a 1961 date of death

• Good ctah, have updated. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• Earwig flags "In 1949, he, along with three others, in a trial at Princes Risborough Magistrates' Court, was found guilty of two offences relating to the illegal export of Bristol Beaufighters to Palestine" as being a copy of information in [1]. Can't tell if it's a mirror or not, though

• Don't think that is a mirror, but I have revised. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• "the first German aircraft to be shot down over British territory since 1918" - Is flagged as being close paraphrasing of the first external link

• Revised. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

• The first external link gives a rank of flight lieutenant and a date of death as July 1962. The source doesn't look reliable. If it's that inaccurate, maybe it shouldn't even be external linked, since it contradicts claims in the article.

• Removed. Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, several of these are almost queries I don't have good answers to, rather than clear comments. Hog Farm _Bacon 23:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Hog Farm, thanks for the review, it is appreciated. I have responded to your points above. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:24, 18 August 2020 (UTC)