Talk:Brisbane International

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Really not so sure of the additions

The Brisbane event itself only starts its history in 2009, so they don't consider anything else the same event. Now it's one thing if you squeeze Gold Coast events.... at least they are in the same zipcode. But Adelaide is over 1200 miles away, so it is not the same event. Sure, sometimes tennis moves things to a new venue and they keep the same history, but Brisbane has not kept the same history. I think Brisbane should be it's own event entirely and South Australia should have it's own article. Those are my thoughts. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

This was also discussed previously right here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 10:27, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi the sources I provided state Tennis Australia moved the event to Brisbane if you can find a source that says its not the same event we can proceed with suggestions.--Navops47 (talk) 12:30, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Okay so this is where it gets very confusing at tennis archives the South Australian Championships are listed here (1889-1974), on tennis base its the same list tournament but till 2008 and also says South Australian Open played on grass till 1987 then hard in Adelaide. At tennis archives the Australian Hard Courts here and at tennis base list this tournament with completely different winners to the SA Champ/Open and at different locations e.g. Hobart, Canterbury, Brisbane, Sydney etc date range for both (1938-1987). Additional sources I have found are also very confusing – Sydney Morning Herald 6 July 2006 'Tennis Australia today announced the national men's and women's hard court championships would both be played in Brisbane from 2009' – One India News 7 July 2006 'The Australian men's and women's hard court championships, which have been held respectively at Adelaide and the Gold Coast, will be combined in one event at Brisbane – Brisbane International News 11 January 2009, 'The inaugural Brisbane International has been branded a resounding success replacing the smaller men’s ATP event in Adelaide and women’s WTA event on the Gold Coast, the financial success is a huge endorsement of Tennis Australia’s combined Brisbane move' – Sports Marketing 7 July 2006 'The event will involve bringing together the existing Next Generation Adelaide International for men with the Mondial Australian Women’s Hardcourts on the Gold Coast in the one state-of-the-art venue' – The Age 8 July 2006 ' ONE of the world's oldest tennis tournaments, the 126-year-old Adelaide championships, will be moved to Brisbane in 2009. Plans were announced yesterday to absorb the Adelaide hard court event and the women's equivalent on the Gold Coast into a combined tournament' – ABC TV Australia ' The South Australian premier Mike Rann says Tennis Australia has made the wrong decision in transferring the Australian Men's Hardcourt Championship from Adelaide to Brisbane. Adelaide has been the venue for the championship for more than 100 years but from 2009 Brisbane will take on the event. This event Australian Men's Hardcourt Championships is a re-direct to Brisbane. The Adelaide tournaments template lists the South Australian Champs, South Australian Open, Australian Hard Courts together and Next Generation Hardcourts/Adelaide (1972-2008) together. So if Tennis Archives and Tennis Base have different lists of winners for SA Champs/Open and Australian HC Champs why are the sources linking Adelaide's history to Brisbane.--Navops47 (talk) 13:43, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

No question, it is confusing. It's sort of like the confusion with the US National Indoor Championships that was talked about in 2015. Tennis events can get pretty wacky when the event is allowed to move yet retain its history. But the official Brisbane tournament history only starts in 2009 so perhaps that is where we should also start it. I think the Gold Coast and South Australian tournaments are now defunct. So much of the confusion is caused by the fact that the Australian men's and women's hard court championships is not really a tournament. It gets attached to the best hard court event and people start to think it's the same thing. For years we had the wrong winners at the Memphis event per sourcing that was bad, because of the exact same thing. But surely Brisbane is not the South Australian tournament being 1000 miles away and not close to South Australia. In you quote you can see that South Australian officials were quite upset at losing the event. South Australia tennis was gone but the Australian Hard Court title moved up north. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:29, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree this tournament should really be from 2009 only this is what I have extrapolated for the South Australian Championships begins in Adelaide and was played on grass from 1889 until 1976. In 1977 the event is renamed the Marlborough South Australian Men's Tennis Classic. There was no event in 1978. In 1979 it is renamed the South Australian Open in 1987 the event switched from Grass to Hard until 1989 when it is renamed the Australian Men's Hard Court Championships. Moving onto the history of the actual Australian Hard Court Championships the event begins in 1938 and is played on Clay until 1977 with various cities hosting the event. The tournament continues in that name from 1978 until 1987 but has now switched to Hard Courts. From 1988 until 1989 there is no event, however it re-emerges in Adelaide in 1990 as the Australian HC Champs. In 1999 the event is renamed the AAPT Championships until 2004. In 2005 it is renamed the Adelaide Next Generation Hard Courts. In 2006 until 2008 the event is renamed again to the Adelaide Next Generation International. In 2009 the tournament ceases and is moved to Brisbane where it begins as a new tournament the Brisbane International. As I said early both Tennis Archives and Tennis Base have two separate Rolls of Honor listed for the South Australian and the Australian Hard Courts. Take this into consideration the table below includes the actual Australian HC champions from inception till 1987 I have left out the years 1988 to 1989 as that was the South Australian Open and should be in a new article the South Australian Championships . From 1990 until 2008 I have now included the winners from the all the previous Adelaide events. Also if we now create these articles to get around the re-directs we can simply add (tennis) to the new Australian Hard Court Championships article. Unfortunately I do not know how you re-direct the other stand alone articles for Adelaide the ones I have mentioned above like AAPT etc. Do you agree with my findings? and if I create these articles can you do the re-directs? We can move the Adelaide Tournaments template into the new Australian HC page let me know.--Navops47 (talk) 04:35, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

The new draft of the article is here.--Navops47 (talk) 05:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

YEAR	Location	SURFACE	WINNER	RUNNER-UP	SCORE
2008	ADELAIDE	H	Michaël Llodra	Jarkko Nieminen	6–3, 6–4
2007	ADELAIDE	H	Novak Djokovic	Chris Guccione	6–3, 6–7(6–8), 6–4
2006	ADELAIDE	H	Florent Serra	Xavier Malisse	6–3, 6–4
2005	ADELAIDE	H	Joachim Johansson	Taylor Dent	7–5, 6–3
2004	ADELAIDE	H	Dominik Hrbatý	Michaël Llodra	6–4, 6–0
2003	ADELAIDE	H	Nikolay Davydenko	Kristof Vliegen	6–2, 7–6(7–3)
2002	ADELAIDE	H	Tim Henman	Mark Philippoussis	6–4, 6–7(6–8), 6–3
2001	ADELAIDE	H	Tommy Haas	Nicolás Massú	6–3, 6–1
2000	ADELAIDE	H	Lleyton Hewitt	Thomas Enqvist	3–6, 6–3, 6–2
1999	ADELAIDE	H	Thomas Enqvist	Lleyton Hewitt	4–6, 6–1, 6–2
1998	ADELAIDE	H	Lleyton Hewitt	Jason Stoltenberg	3–6, 6–3, 7–6(7–4)
1997	ADELAIDE	H	Todd Woodbridge	Scott Draper	6–2, 6–1
1996	ADELAIDE	H	Yevgeny Kafelnikov	Byron Black	7–6(7–0), 3–6, 6–1
1995	ADELAIDE	H	Jim Courier	Arnaud Boetsch	6–2, 7–5
1994	ADELAIDE	H	Yevgeny Kafelnikov	Alexander Volkov	6–4, 6–3
1993	ADELAIDE	H	Nicklas Kulti	Christian Bergström	3–6, 7–5, 6–4
1992	ADELAIDE	H	Goran Ivanišević	Christian Bergström	1–6, 7–6(7–5), 6–4
1991	ADELAIDE	H	Sweden Nicklas Kulti	Michael Stich	6–3, 1–6, 6–2
1990	ADELAIDE	H	Austria Thomas Muster	Jimmy Arias	3–6, 6–2, 7–5
1987	SYDNEY	H	John Frawley	Johan Anderson	6-2 6-3
1986	SYDNEY	H	Peter Doohan	Desmond Tyson	6-3 6-2
1985	SYDNEY	H	Peter Doohan	Bruce Derlin	6-4 6-4
1984	SYDNEY	H	Peter Doohan	Jonathan Canter	2-6 6-3 6-3
1983	SYDNEY	H	Simon Youl	John Frawley	3-6 7-5 6-2
1982	SYDNEY	H	Pat Cash	Craig A. Miller	7-5 6-7 6-2
1981	SYDNEY	H	Kim Warwick	Greg Whitecross	6-3 7-6
1980	HOBART	H	Shlomo Glickstein	Robert Van't Hof	7-6 6-4
1979	HOBART	H	Guillermo Vila	Mark Edmonson	6-4 6-4
1977	MELBOURNE	C	David Carter	Mal Anderson	6-1 6-3
1976	SYDNEY	C	Terry Rocavert	Warren Maher	6-4 6-7 2-6 7-6 6-4
1975	MELBOURNE	C	Peter McNamara	John Marks	6-2 6-2 6-2
1974	GYMPIE	C	Ulrich Pinner	Kjell Johansson	6-3 6-2 4-6 7-5
1973	ROCKDALE	C	Ross Case	Kim Warwick	6-3 6-1 6-0
1972	SOUTHPORT	C	Geoff Masters	Mal Anderson	6-3 6-7 6-3 7-5
1971	SOUTHPORT	C	Mal Anderson	Geoff Master	2-6 6-0 6-3 6-2
1970	TOOWOOMBA	C	Colin Dibley	Bob Giltinan	6-3 7-6 6-4
1969	SYDNEY	C	Ray Ruffels	Ina Fletcher	6-4 6-4 3-6 5-7 6-3
1968	SYDNEY	C	Phil Dent	Bob Giltinan	6-2 6-4 12-10
1967	MELBOURNE	C	Tony Roche	John Newcombe	5-7 7-5 6-2 6-2
1966	SYDNEY	C	Roy Emerson	Tony Roche	6-3 8-6 4-6 6-3
1965	SYDNEY	C	John Newcombe	Fred Stolle	4-6 6-1 6-1 6-3
1964	LAUNCESTON	C	Martin Mulligan	Fred Stolle	6-3 6-4 8-6
1963	MELBOURNE	C	Neale Fraser	Owen Davidson	6-2 6-2 6-4
1962	BRISBANE	C	Rod Laver	Fred Stolle	6-2 2-6 6-4 4-6 8-6
1961	HOBART	C	Bob Hewitt	Rod Laver	6-4 6-2 5-7 6-3
1960	HOBART	C	Martin Mulligan	Bob Hewitt	6-1 6-2 4-6 6-4
1959	MELBOURNE	C	Neale Fraser	Roy Emerson	6-2 3-6 12-10 6-3
1958	BRISBANE	C	Ashley Cooper	Bob Mark	7-5 6-2 6-2
1957	MELBOURNE	C	Ashley Cooper	Neale Fraser	6-2 4-6 6-3 6-3
1956	MELBOURNE	C	Ashley Cooper	Mervyn Rose	7-5 6-4 9-11 6-4
1955	LAUNCESTON	C	Ken Rosewall	Neale Fraser	6-3 5-7 6-4 2-6 6-1
1954	BRISBANE	C	Mervyn Rose	Don Candy	7-5 6-4 6-2
1953	SYDNEY	C	Lew Hoad	John Bromwich	7-5 6-3 2-6 9-7
1952	MELBOURNE	C	Lew Hoad	Ken Rosewall	2-6 6-1 1-6 6-2 11-9
1951	LAUNCESTON	C	Frank Sedgman	Don Candy	6-3 6-2 6-2
1950	TOOWOOMBA	C	Frank Sedgman	George Worthington	6-1 6-0 6-4
1949	SYDNEY	C	Adrian Quist	Geoff Brown	4-6 8-6 6-4 6-0
1948	SYDNEY	C	Adrian Quist	Bill Sidwell	6-2 6-1 7-5
1947	TOOWOOMBA	C	Adrian Quist	Frank Sedgman	6-3 6-2 6-3
1946	SYDNEY	C	Dinny Pails	Geoff Brown	7-5 6-2 7-5
	WW2		WW2	WW2	WW2
1940	HOBART	C	John Bromwich	Jack Crawford	6-1 4-6 6-2 6-2
1939	TOOWOOMBA	C	Vivian McGrath	James Gilchrist	3-6 7-5 7-5 6-0
1938	SYDNEY	C	Jack Crawford	Vivian Mc Grath	2-6 3-6 6-2 6-2 6-4

Navops47 (talk) 05:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

On 1988 and 1989 events, weren't they considered by both tournament names? If so they should be in both article lists but with a footnote denoting the fact that they overlap. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:56, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Hi the tennis base tournament roll stops in 1987 with the name Australian Hard Court Championships, I have no idea that the 1988 and 1989 were concurrently styled the South Australian Open and Australian Hard Court Championships if your sure about that its not a problem to add them but I would like a source confirming this.--Navops47 (talk) 10:16, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

The new article has been created Australian Hard Court Championships please also see my comments Talk:Australian Hard Court Championships regarding next stage and a few re-direct technical problems that need resolving as I cannot do them thanks.--Navops47 (talk) 11:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

Why does "South Australian Open" redirect here?

The redirect of South Australian Open to here was created in 2009. After the above discussion, South Australian Championships was created in 2017, including comments that the SA Championships were known as "South Australian Open" from 1979 to 1989; while this article has no direct mention of the SA Open. So surely now South Australian Open should redirect to South Australian Championships? Adpete (talk) 09:07, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Looks like an oversight after some page splits. I redirected it to South Australian Championships. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:26, 16 January 2019 (UTC)