Talk:British Indians/Archive 1

Archive 1

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. DrKiernan (talk) 13:14, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

Indian British → British Indian — The American-style names "Indian British" or "Indian Britons" are not used in reliable sources about this population group.

• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL --- tens of thousands of GHits clearly about the topic of this article
• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL --- mainly GHits of the "Indian, British" type or relating to relations between India and Britain
• Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL --- only a few hundred GHits at all, largely from American sources

The current British Indian disambiguation page could either go at British Indian (disambiguation) or be merged with the former version of Indian British (which also used to be a disambiguation page). Regards, cab (talk) 01:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC) —cab (talk) 01:17, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Katrina Kaif is NOT British

She's an Anglo-Indian with a British-born parent and has spent time in Britain, but she is NOT British!

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Move, certainly. I've never heard the term "Indian British". Sounds like "Going For a British" to me. Relata refero (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Where's the article for people of English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish descent who were born and raised in India? What should the title of that be? A significant number of the hits you refer to seem to relate to that, not this. Dekimasuよ! 04:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Traditionally called Anglo-Indians, though that term now generally refers to Eurasians. Relata refero (talk) 14:22, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Really? Can you point to some examples? Aside from the use of "British Indian" to refer to UK residents of Indian descent, the only other major usages I can see among the GBooks/GScholar hits is "Indian subjects of the British Empire" during the Indian colonial era, and a few about indigeneous peoples of North America and their relation to the British Empire. The term Anglo-Indian used to be used to refer to any English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish person resident in India, but these days is used to refer exclusively to the mixed-race. Probably because these days, the actual number of Britons of non-Indian descent settling in India (as opposed to living there as expatriates for a while) is quite miniscule. cab (talk) 06:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Oppose

I created the the Indian British article, and I do not appreciate that you keep changing the articles name to British Indian, what reasoning at all do you have behind it. The term British Indian means Indian people of British descent. Even the UK's National Statistics used the term Asian or Asian British (including Indian British), all other Indian diasporas have the 'Indian' in the name first (Indian American, Indian Canadian etc). Renaming the article has made the meaning the complete opposite, and has helped to make ther small article even worse. I would be thankful if you could lift the 'move page block' as it needs renaming to its former self. I see absolutely no reason why you shouldn't, except the fact that another article is called British Asian, which is also wrong, but I do not yet want to get involved with such a complicated article, follow the link to the the correct term - Asian British, hence Indian British - in usage [1]. Thanks Stevvvv4444 (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

You do not own articles that you create; article titles, like any other aspect of the article, are decided by consensus among editors based on the names used in reliable sources. The government (whose usage is hardly decsisive: "Asian or Asian British: Indian") are merely one such reliable source among many. It's meaningless to call one or the other ordering "wrong" because it doesn't follow some arbitrary convention; there is no requirement in the English language that we always put country of origin first and country of destination second in such names. Accordingly, "British Indian" does not not mean "Indians of British descent"; it means what reliable sources use it to mean, namely Britons of Indian descent.

Not all other Indian diaspora populations have their name in the American-style "Indian Xyzian" ordering anyway (most notably Malaysian Indians and Burmese Indians, two groups in former British colonies); looking at other groups, there's even less support for the alleged convention "country of origin always goes first" (Sakhalin Koreans, Malaysian Chinese, Volga Germans, etc). I have proposed the guideline Wikipedia:Naming conventions (immigrant ethnic groups) on this matter, but it has not received much discussion. You may want to comment at the talk page there. cab (talk) 15:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:BBRaceRow.jpg

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Population figure

The 2001 Census is considerably out of date (almost a decade), even though this source isn't official government data it is much more recent evidence of a increasing population of British Indians. Also as can be seen with the British Pakistanis page, when most recent estimates by the Office of National Statistics for England as well as the 2001 census data from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are added together, a similar figure is given:

• Indians in England in 2006 (est and excluding those of partial descent) - 1,264,200[2]
• Indians in Scotland in 2001 (official but excluding those of partial descent) - 15,037 [3]
• Indians in Wales in 2001 (official but excluding those of partial descent) - 8,261 [4]
• Indians in N.Ireland in 2001 (official but excluding those of partial descent) - 1,567 [5]
• Therefore total in 2006 is estimated by the government at at least 1,289,065 (as Wales, Scotland, N.Ireland data is out of date, plus the figures only include people of 100% Indian origin).

Stevvvv4444 (talk) 16:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Other British Indian populations

I read your article with interest - I have always wanted to know the history of British Indians. The article only mentions London populations. I'd like to know more about British Indian populations in Manchester, and other parts of Britain eg Scotland, yorkshire, and midlands.

Thanks

A British Indian

P.S. The attacks on lower caste Indians probably happened in India. I can't believe that British Indians were involved in caste associated attacks. We are usually more liberal about caste issues even if we only tend to marry within the same scio-economic or cultural group 'caste' system - lower castes tend to come from different cultural or social background, often working class. This is mainly a practice of more traditional British Indian populations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.85.204 (talk) 15:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge

Migration to the United Kingdom should not be based on ethnic group but on nationality and the British Tamil article is the only one based on ethnicity in the Asia section. The information in the British Tamil article is already in both the Sri Lankans in the United Kingdom and British Indian articles of where Tamil People come from therefore the British Tamil article is not needed.--Blackknight12 (talk) 03:01, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

British Tamil is formed as ethnic group though they come from Sri Lanka or India. Likewise Chinese communities whom may hailed from China or Taiwan consider as Chinese diaspora, so British Tamil is needed. Dont spread your ethnic hegemonicsm in Wikipedia. --Jai Kumara Yesappa (talk) 23:12, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Discussion of this is underway at Talk:Sri Lankans in the United Kingdom, so it's best to post comments there rather than here. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:17, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Flag

I've started a discussion about the origin of the flag used to represent British Indians in the article at File talk:Anglo-Indian Indentity.svg. Comments are welcome. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:25, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Lord Archer makes comments about Indians taking over Britain

A notable political figure, Lord Archer mentions how the Indian people are talking over Britain(not in a bad way). [6] Speaks of their culture and how well accepted they are in that nation. I thought perhaps this might fit somewhere into the article. Show how the cultures mesh. Dream Focus 20:30, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

naseer hussain

replaced jay sen image with nasser hussain(former england internation circet caption), as the same jay sen image is repeating twice in article and discussed in the section MUSIC of same article. regards --Omer123hussain (talk) 08:02, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Katrina-Kaif.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Religion

How do I add the Ravidassia Religion to the religion section. Ravidassia was a focus group for the 2011 census. As well as many as 22 temples around the UK.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.27.210.155 (talk) 19:27, 12 June 2012 (UTC) 

British Indian?

The term British Indian is usually used to refer to the people of British-India, and not those people from Indian subcontinent who have swarmed into Great Britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.241.159 (talk) 06:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

The article is named after the ethnic group. What you are referring to possibly Anglo-Indian and / or is covered in the article entitled British Raj.Tmol42 (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Sports

Why isn't there a section detailing prominent British Indians in UK sports? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.125.25.120 (talk) 15:026, 08 May 2013 (UTC)

This article is about the various aspects which characterise the British Indian ethnic group, it's not meant to be about any of the near infinite range of activities an individual from this ethnic group might be known for. Tmol42 (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Notification of article title related discussion at Talk:Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom

There is currently a thread started at: Talk:Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom#Pluralisation of ethnic group titles perhaps as "British people of <x origin> descent" as per Categories.

Contributions welcome. GregKaye 09:53, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

How do you add someone to the gallery? I think Cornelia Sorabji should without a doubt be represented on this Wikipedia page.

One of the most accomplished women and trailblazers was an Indian woman named Cornelia Sorabji. She is often overlooked but I believe she should be qualified to be added onto the gallery area with her photo. If 12 prominent British-Indians must be in the gallery then perhaps remove someone like Michael Chopra in order to add Cornelia Sorabji. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.26.97.221 (talk) 22:54, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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Vandalism by IP 82.38.33.151

I have added back the sourced information which was removed by the vandal ip without any reason. 2A02:C7D:1536:C00:40C1:E902:C141:43E8 (talk) 17:09, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Brexit claim

I have reverted this addition for the second time, because the source does not support the claim that the majority of British Indians voted for the UK to leave the EU. Poling evidence suggests the opposite, in fact. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:51, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 14 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. (non-admin closure) Colin M (talk) 22:45, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

---

British Indian → British Indians – Per British Pakistanis. Unreal7 (talk) 00:27, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. We usually use the plural for peoples and ethnic groups. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:55, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Did you intend to move the page, Colin M, or do you want me to? Cordless Larry (talk) 07:19, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

@Cordless Larry: if you don't mind, that would be great. If you do, you can also remove the entry at WP:RMT. (I did intend to do the move, but didn't realize until I was partway in that British Indian is move-protected.) Colin M (talk) 08:00, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

No problem. Done. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:51, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 7 December 2019

Hello! It seems that "Indian British" redirects to a redirect page. Please fix that. 4TacklesMath (talk) 12:27, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Art and Literature

I am new to editing wikipedia. I recently added sections on art and literature under the 'culture' subheading, which were notable omissions, and cited numerous well known and acclaimed British Indians such as Anish Kapoor who has won the Turner Prize and Salman Rushdie who has won the booker prize, however these sections were deleted, but the edit description is not clear why. Please can you explain? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natpalit (talk • contribs) 20:04, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I reverted quite a lot of recent additions because they were unsourced (e.g. this) or poorly sourced (some were sourced to other Wikipedia articles, which isn't allowed per WP:CIRCULAR). Most of them were made by IP editors, but perhaps that was you and you weren't logged in? Cordless Larry (talk) 20:14, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

OK. The guidelines suggested only information that was contentious required citations. None of the content was really questionable, and I think it could have been dealt with by simply adding 'citation needed' rather than deleting all the content. Natpalit (talk) 21:25, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Priti Patel

An IP editor, having started by removing the image of Priti Patel on the grounds that "Everybody is sick of seeing her face", is now insisting that she's not British Indian, so I've added a reference to a reliable source to the image. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:14, 1 August 2021 (UTC)