Talk:British Rail Class 08

Naming convention

There is a discussion about the naming convention to use for articles about British locomotive and multiple unit classes at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (British railway locomotive and multiple unit classes). Your comments are more than welcome. Thryduulf 22:23, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Power

In the variants table, the figures of approximately 50 tons were first posted without saying what they were, then later converted to kN, then labeled "power", which does not make sense-that much tractive effort on a loco this size would be useless as the wheels would slip. I have relabeled them "weight", which makes sense and is consistent with the other table.

I have also removed the 350hp/260kW power figure as I doubt its correctness: I have seen both 400hp (eg. here) and 350hp quoted. It appears most likely that early versions were 350hp and the final standard 08 400hp, but I have yet to verify this, and I do not know whether any 350hp versions were actually classified 08 (rather than 11).--QuantumEngineer 11:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

See also NS Class 600 and [1] Biscuittin (talk) 10:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I have inserted more conventional weight conversions (Long tons/Metric tonnes/Short tons) to match the infobox. Mock wurzel soup (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

In Ian Allan ABC of British Railways Locomotives (winter 1962/3 edition) entry for D3000-D3116 shows 350 bhp at 630 rpm and for D3127 onwards shows 350 bhp at 680 rpm. My guess is that the uprating to 400 bhp took place at the same time as the 50 rpm speed increase and that the entry for D3127 onwards should read 400 bhp at 680 rpm. Can anyone confirm this? Biscuittin (talk) 20:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone know the difference between the 6K and 6KT engines? I thought the 6K had a massive crankcase for stationary work while the 6KT had a lighter crankcase for railway work but this [2] suggests otherwise. Does anyone have more information? Biscuittin (talk) 20:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

It's the same engine. E-E made a basic in-line engine called the 'K', and the traction version was a 'KT'. The only difference would be the feet and mountings for the alternator. A marine would be a 'KM', a marine generator 'KZ' and so on. It's the ancestor of the 'RK' ('Replacement K') fitted to later classes such as Class 56. ChrisRed (talk) 12:16, 8 April 2008 (UTC) (ex-Ruston Diesels, Vulcan Foundry)

Incidentally, E-E/Ruston engines were also sometimes prone to the 'accountancy rebuild' syndrome. After the 'K' and 'V' engines had finished their production runs; if an engine had well and truly mangled itself, it would often be 'rebuilt' by simply holding the identity plate in one hand and screwing a new engine on to it when the accountants weren't looking. Several class 40s and 50s probably ended their days with derated 16RK3CTs, so I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few 08s actually carried 6RKTs at the end. ChrisRed (talk) 12:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

therailwaycentre.com gives Class 11 (12033-12138) and 12 (15211-15236): EE 6KT 350hp (194hp at rail) Class 08 (13000-13366, D3000-D4192, 08 077-08 958) and 09: EE 6KT 400hp (260hp at rail) Class 13 (D4500-D4502, 13 001-13 003): 2xEE 6K 350hp each The TOPS number range given for the 08 might be taken to suggest that 08 001-08 076 (which did exist, at least 2 of them still do) were different, though one might expect that were this the case they would have been assigned a separate subclass. The 13 and D number ranges for the 08 overlap with the ranges they give for D3/3, D3/5 and 10 (non-EE 350hp engines).

Fragonset (website no longer available, probably because they have gone bust), who might be expected to know since they owned 3, gave 400hp at 680rpm...and, on the same page without explanation, 350hp.--QuantumEngineer (talk) 19:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Electrical systems

The reason for the two types of electrical systems needs to be mentioned. Wongm (talk) 12:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Could you expand a bit? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.249.232.187 (talk) 01:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I think Wongm means why do some have 90 volt and some 110 volt electrical systems? I'd like to know too. Mock wurzel soup (talk) 18:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Preserved locos

Judging from recent edits there seems to be a demand for more info on preserved locos - however with 150? preserved I wouldn't be sure how to do it? There's a list at http://www.wnxx.net/fleetstatus/Fleet.htm

Any suggestions?

(also I only count about 59 preserved locos not more than 150 as the article stated)

(also gallery removed - as per guidlines on galleries - if there are any saliant images, that show more than views varying by +/- 10 degrees in aspect then that could be worthwhile )

213.249.232.187 (talk) 01:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I make it 62 locos from the same list. Preserved locos may be described in a sub-article, as done for List of preserved BR Standard Class 9F locomotives or List of SR West Country Class locomotives.

Gallery removal is not a major issue as there are lots of pictures at Commons. I have modified the Commons template so that the link box shows up. All of the pictures in the article are already at Commons, with the exception of File:HPIM0255.JPG "Class 08 at the North Norfolk Railway on 9th August 2007" (plain green livery) which is local to Wikipedia (and should be moved across). I have changed the lead image to a much larger example taken during operational service. In due course, additional photos can be added to show the front end better than the small Yeoman shot. The article needs much more text before that can happen.

EdJogg (talk) 13:44, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

HOW MANY ?

The class are the most numerous preserved locos, but they are still working - so are the locos actually preserved at all?

Also how many still in action - does anyone even know, (excluding "preserved" locos) - I think the lead section needs changing "therefore only a few Class 08 locomotives " - maybe to only a small percentage - there still seems to be quite a few out there...FengRail (talk) 20:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Excluding locos on preserved railways I counted to 100 still (alledgedly) in service - and gave up - there could be up to 150, not more than 200.

Is anyone good at this sort of thing - how about an attrition list - ie number scrapped, number with preserved railways, number exported, number private (non railtrack), number works loco, number FGW/Freighliner/Wabtec/EWS etc.

Also has anyone got a good source other than http://www.wnxx.net/fleetstatus/Fleet.htm for the numbers. Thanks.FengRail (talk) 20:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The figure of 60/65 was reached by counting just those on preserved railways. This does assume that being located thus they are therefore 'preserved' (which is usually, but not always, the case). Since the locos are still in mainline service and many more are stored, there is no point specifying a precise number of 'preserved' locomotives since any day more may be 'rescued'.

EdJogg (talk) 23:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Mmmh I've been thinking about this and decided that the article needs expansion - there are now quite a lot working for various companies (mentioned above), plus the exported ones, plus the 'preserved' ones - I think I'll do something in the near future. - probably with dates - there was a big scrapping under EWS which should be mentioned too.

Still the issue of whether or not they are preserved bothers me - obviously a Gresley A4 is a preserved locomotive - brought out for special occasions with lots of interest. I wonder just how many 08s on preserved railways are actually doing work (shunting carriages etc) and how many are there on retirement. saved out of love...FengRail (talk) 23:40, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

You're in danger of opening a can of worms here! If you start using phrases such as "actually doing work", what is the difference between these and the diesel engines used for the preserved railways' passenger trains? It is a 'given' that all of the steam engines are 'preserved' (even if they are still in ex-scrapyard condition) so why shouldn't the same blanket assumption apply to diesel locos sold out of BR/industrial service? Does it matter who owns the locomotive? (Many heritage railways are commercial entities using locos owned by themselves.) Etc

EdJogg (talk) 11:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Operations and numbers of locomotives

Done a bit - bit short of references. I wonder if a table of number withdrawn or stored per year would be a good idea?213.249.232.187 (talk) 04:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

It might make the article a bit table-heavy. I think this belongs on a more specialist wiki. EdJogg (talk) 12:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Possible change to the title of this article

This article is currently named in accordance the Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Railways naming conventions for British rolling stock allocated a TOPS number. A proposal to change this convention and/or its scope is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways#Naming convention, where your comments would be welcome.

External links modified

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Manual Fuel Pump

In `Rail' magazine no. 462 (May/June 2003) `Cementing Relationships', p. 30)it iss stated that `fuel must be pumped to keep the locomotive alive', and a photograph shows a crew member apparently pumping fuel by hand. It seems incredible that manual fuel pumping is needed in a pst WW2 locomotive, unless in special circumstances such as starting or mechanical failure. I thought that these locos had a gravity-fed fuel system. Can anyone with experience with 08's confirm or deny the requirement for hand-pumping of fuel? Barney Bruchstein (talk) 16:39, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

A number of items were manually operated on the Class 08, including the fuel transfer pump, which transferred fuel from the main tank to the header

tank for distribution to the fuel injectors. One of the drivers jobs (although this was invariably lumbered to a 'spare' secondman sitting in the Traffic Office) was to use a hand pump on the left driving position to maintain this supply. 146.199.31.7 (talk) 23:06, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

This was certainly the case with some of the early LMS prototypes, such as 7058-7068, but not 7079. See Richards, E.V. (1996). LMS Diesel Locomotives and Railcars. Long Stratton: RCTS. pp. 49, 54, 58. ISBN 0-901115-76-2. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

08706

Per June's Rail Express, 08706 has been sold into preservation by HNRC. It was delivered to the Colne Valley Railway in April, having been acquired by one of the line's members. I'd be grateful if somebody would please make the appropriate edit here and also add it to the separate list of preserved examples. Thanks. XAM2175 ^(T) 01:24, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

References