Talk:Brothers and Sisters (album)

Fair use rationale for Image:Brothersandsistersallmanbrother.jpg

Image:Brothersandsistersallmanbrother.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have added an appropriate fair use rationale to the album cover image, which is therefore no longer subject to speedy deletion. — Mudwater 18:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Redundant

The "Background" section repeats (at times verbatim) information that is in the lead paragraph. Seems like one or the other of them could use some pruning. Dr hilto (talk) 14:45, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Brothers and Sisters (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 08:34, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Since I reviewed the other Allman albums, I'm happy to do this one as well. I notice most of the similar sources have been used.

• The "sfn|Allman & Light|2012|p=xxx" citation templates don't work, they should be"sfn|Allman|Light|2012|p=xxx"
• There is an unreferenced paragraph in "Deluxe editions". An allmusic entry should probably sort that out.
• There's a lot talk about drug taking, which does appear to be well sourced, though per WP:BLP we should still err on the side of being a conservative. I don't know if that's going to be a problem with looking at specifics.
• There is no mention of Top Gear, which has used "Jessica" as its theme tune (in one form or another) since 1977, and for the first 20 years used the recording on this album. I think that will need at least one sentence in this article, as in the UK that's the most widely heard extract from this by a wide margin. Top Gear (1977 TV series) has a link to this article.

More in-depth comments later. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:34, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Lead

• "Produced by Johnny Sandlin and the band themselves, the album was released" - suggest "It was produced by the band with Johnny Sadlin, and released..."
• "group hangout" is a quotation but not presented as such in the body
• "he excessively drank and consumed drugs" ... hmmm, not so sure this should be in the lead to be honest
• "things seemed to be looking up for Oakley" - this looks a bit too colloquialism and whimsical. I think a better thing to do is probably to just say Oakley was suffering from depression, and was killed in an accident part way through recording
• "country-inspired twang" - what's a "twang"?
• "The band did not replace Duane with another lead guitarist" - possibly a better idea would be to put "but not directly replacing Duane" at the end of the first sentence
• "vocalist Gregg Allman" - "vocalist / organist?"
• "Brittany Oakley, the daughter of bassist Berry Oakley" - per WP:LASTNAME can be simplified as "Oakley's daughter Brittany"
• "it was released to high sales" - better to just state the exact number of copies sold
• "The commercial success of the record propelled the Allman Brothers Band to the forefront of popular music." - POV, any band (even Bringers of Darkness) could claim they were "at the forefront of popular music"
• "all while drug use spiraled out of control within the group" - this doesn't seem to parse correctly. I'd go with "The album was followed by a tour of arenas and stadiums, but marred by drug problems, strained friendships and miscommunication (between whom?)" for the last sentence

More later. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:03, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Background

• "a hybrid studio/live album that became their biggest yet" - biggest what, exactly?
• "the death of his friend" - might be better to say "the death of Duane"
• "after Leavell entered the equation" - suggest "after Leavell joined the band", plus there's nowhere that actually specifically states he officially joined.
• "On November 11, 1972, slightly inebriated" - best remove "slightly inebriated", just the facts about his accident should do
• Rose Hill Cemetery has a disambiguation tag
• "two years removed from an Army stint" - "two years removed" is a slightly odd phrase
• "Williams brought both the best of Oakley's style and his own style to the table" - "to the table" is a colloquialism

Recording and production

• "The band began recording Brothers and Sisters in the autumn of 1972 at Capricorn Studios in Macon, Georgia" - this implies session predated Oakley's death, can this be clarified?
• "Dickey Betts became the group's de facto leader" - WP:LASTNAME, just "Betts" will do
• "The band first cut" - suggest "recorded" instead of "cut"
• "sitting down at 3pm sharp each day" - suggest "sitting down each afternoon", I don't think he looked at a watch and started songwriting at 3pm to the nearest second ;-)
• " Les Dudek, the guitarist who eventually record" - should be "recorded"
• "He wanted out of his contract with Phil Walden at Capricorn" - "He wanted to end his contract" would sound better
• Driving under the influence - acronym (DUI) should be spelled out in full on first use
• "Williams plays upright bass" - "played upright bass", for tense consistency
• "The album's artwork was taken at "the Farm" - why the scare quotes around "the farm"?

Artwork

• It might be worth checking how suitable People is as a source, I think it's a bit tabloidish. I'm okay with it because you are directly quoting someone's opinion, but there's been a recent kerfuffle on WP:BLPN about these types of references.

Release

• ""Ramblin' Man" broke hard-rock barriers" - not sure what "breaking hard-rock barriers" means
• "Although "Jessica" rose no higher than number 65 on the Hot 100, it later became a staple of classic rock radio" - this is probably the point that the reference to being the Top Gear theme tune should be added, because of that show, it's probably the UK's widest exposure to the Allman Brothers' music by a long way.

Touring

• "Payne had saved Allman's life the night before from an overdose" - an overdose of what? Cocaine? Heroin? Amphetamines?
• "alcohol, cocaine, and acid" - better to use LSD instead of "acid"
• "from the ABB" - is "the ABB" a recognised abbreviation for the band
• "Betts was dosed beforehand" - how, and with what?
• "The band played arenas and stadiums almost solely" - suggest "The band concentrated on playing arenas and stadiums", otherwise it looks as if "solely" could refer to drug taking.

Track listing

• "All songs written by Dickey Betts, except where noted" - is this what the actual sleeve notes day? I thought he was referred to as "Richard Betts" through this period

Deluxe editions

• As mentioned, the first paragraph is unsourced

Audio

• The sample of "Jessica" cuts out in an odd place, I'd probably drop it back to 20 seconds. Again, mention this is the Top Gear theme tune in the box.

Summary

• Overall, this is another good Allman Brothers album article, with relatively minor prose issues being the main thing to address. I have banged on a bit about Top Gear, I admit, but it is cited as being "the most widely watched factual television programme in the world". I'll put this on hold pending improvements. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:36, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Response

Hey there, thanks for the review, and thanks for the great suggestions. I’ve implemented almost all of them, but here’s some notes on some stuff:

• Per the drug taking, I’ve removed very little of it. I realize that it’s dangerous, but much of it is pretty crucial to set up Oakley’s death in the third paragraph of “background.” I’ve removed at least one sentence to cut it down a little.
• “The Farm” is presented with quotes each time it’s used.
• Yeahhh, People doesn’t ever tend to be a good source. I’ve included it here because the article I managed to find was fairly insightful on many things. If you see fit to remove it, do so, but I think it contributes well to the artwork section (it was also, if I recall, the only source I could find on a worldwide estimate of its sales).

Let me see if I can find another source. If not, I'll leave it for now. If somebody else comes along and says "hey, who passed this through GA with this?", we'll revisit our options then.

• The source doesn’t specify what Betts was dosed with. I’m leaving it as is, but if you see fit to remove it, by all means. It doesn’t particularly contribute to that area and the paragraph is already running a little long.

I've trimmed it down. The sentence implies, quite rightly, that simply walking of stage mid gig was a serious problem. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 07:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

• Just to simplify it a bit, I’ve removed every bit of the Deluxe Editions section. I don’t like to remove other people’s work (especially something so large as three additional discs’ worth of titles/writing credits/lengths), but this isn’t the first time the album’s been re-released and won’t be the last. I say let’s focus on the original LP, and that’s it.

Okay. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 07:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

• Edited the sample.

Thanks again. Saginaw-hitchhiker (talk) 17:45, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Right, well as said above, I'll see if I can find another source to replace People and we'll go from there. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 07:53, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I can't find anything better, though there are a couple of blogs with Vaylor Trucks that mention this. The information is not contentious at all, just about what the children on the cover think of it today. So I'm going to pass the review. Well done. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:12, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Ramblin Man.ogg

File:Ramblin Man.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a non-free use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

-- Marchjuly (talk) 01:06, 18 February 2020 (UTC)