Talk:Bruenor Battlehammer

Notability disputed

Please do not remove the notability template from articles that do not provide any evidence of notability, it is self defeating as removes the notice given to editors who may be able to add reliable secondary sources that their assistance is required. --Gavin Collins (talk) 00:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

There are three reliable secondary sources. -Drilnoth (talk) 13:03, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

And I saw your reason on your talk page, "For your information, the sources don't have anything to do with the subject of the article." A) If they are sources that are being used to cite the article in logical places, how do they not have anything to do with the subject, and B) How would you know if they don't have anything to do with the subject? Have you read those books? -Drilnoth (talk) 13:05, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

• The three sources cited are trivial in nature, and don't provide any evidence of notability for the character.

1. The citation from To Be Continued: An Annotated Guide to Sequels[1] does not support the statement "The character first appears in the Icewind Dale trilogy by author R. A. Salvatore". This statement is a classic example of synthesis;
2. The citation from Magill's Guide to Science Fiction and Fantasy Literature repeats the in universe content to the novel itself by stating "Bruenor is the adoptive father of Catti-brie and Wulfgar, King of Mithral Hall, friend to Drizzt". This citation provides has no real-world context, analysis or criticism about the fictional character;
3. The citation from Dragonlore: From the Archives of the Grey School of Wizardry has the same problem: it is all in universe, e.g. "During their efforts to regain this lost dwarven stronghold, Bruenor slays the shadow dragon Shimmergloom"

Please restore the notability template, as evidence has not been provided. --Gavin Collins (talk) 12:18, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

I have now posted a response to your identical question on your talk page. -Drilnoth (talk) 14:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

• You have not responded to the points I have raised above, so I have restored the {{notability}} cleanup template. If you doubt my views on this, I recomend you take this issue to the Wikipedia:Fiction/Noticeboard in the first instance to get a second opinion. --Gavin Collins (talk) 09:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• I will replace {{notability}} with {{importance}}. Bruenor is a major character in a major book series, and is notable, although I agree that the article does not demonstrate that. -Drilnoth (talk) 13:07, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
• Actually, it appears that someone else has already done it. -Drilnoth (talk) 13:08, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

• I have restored the notability template, on the grounds that this purely in universe article is incapable of providing evidence of notability, even if the in universe content were to be sourced from reliable secondary sources. The article would have to be rewritten from a real-world perspective and then sourced from reliable secondary sources to have any chance of meeting Wikipedia's inclusion guidelines. I have also restore the {{plot}} template, as this article is 90% plot detail, and the context template as there is no real-world information about the character other than his identity. --Gavin Collins (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• Gavin, please. The reason that {{plot}} was removed is because the article is in-universe, and has a template for that. Stories have plots; articles about characters are in-universe. Additionally, you should remove {{importance}} from articles when you add {{notability}} to them, as they are redundant. -Drilnoth (talk) 22:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Drizzt's scimitar

Isn't "Icingdeath" just the name of the dragon from whose hoard the scimitar was taken, not the name of the scimitar itself? I've only read the first few books but in those the scimitar isn't named. The name of the dragon was definitely Icingdeath but I could imagine if the name accidentally spread to the weapon later on, Salvatore seems to frequently have continuity problems. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 04:33, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I think he obtained the sword Icingdeath after slaying the dragon Icingdeath. 24.148.0.83 (talk) 06:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, as I recall he named it after the dragon. Powers ^T 00:02, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Okay, yeah, some notes I found on the Forgotten Realms wiki say it wasn't given that name until The Silent Blade. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 00:53, 30 January 2010 (UTC)