Talk:Bucha massacre/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Golden (talk · contribs) 21:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this article. — Golden ^talk 21:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Lead & Infobox

• Eyewitness accounts from residents of Bucha said that the Russian Armed Forces carried out the killings. - I would add "Additionally" at the beginning of this sentence to better integrate it with the previous sentence.
• Move link for "summary executions" to its first mention.

 Done Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Background

• moved south towards Kyiv. -> "moved south towards the city" to avoid repeating Kyiv twice in the same sentence.
• Wikilink Bucha here.

 Done Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Reports

• men, women, and children - You use an Oxford comma in this instance, but not in many others. I assume that you prefer not to use the Oxford comma, so I won't include any points about where to insert them. If my assumption is incorrect, please let me know.
• Wikilink first instance of mass grave.

 Done – Both points addressed. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

• The "After the Russian withdrawal" section appears disorganised. It seems as though you included as many facts about the bodies as possible without following a clear structure. I suggest organising the information in a more structured manner, such as by first discussing the discovery of the bodies (including who first reported them), followed by the state of the bodies, and finally, the media's assessment.
• related that drunken Russian soldiers told them of carrying out sadistic acts against Ukrainians. - Does "related" have such a meaning as a verb? It's my first time coming across it. If yes, keep that, if not, rewrite the sentence like this: "Villagers who were asked to help identify a beheaded body reported that drunken Russian soldiers had told them about carrying out sadistic acts against Ukrainians."
• I suggest removing the "Use of flechettes" subsection since it is only three sentences long. The information in this subsection could be incorporated into the "After the Russian withdrawal" subsection.
• Some of them had no light or electricity for weeks, using candles for heating water and cooking. They came out of hiding only when it was clear the Russians had left, welcoming the arrival of Ukrainian troops. - I believe this information would be more relevant to the article on the Battle of Bucha, as it does not directly pertain to the massacre itself. However, this is just a suggestion and is optional.

 Not done – Previous four points not yet addressed. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done – These points have been addressed. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:50, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

• You've wikilinked BBC and The Guardian in this section already, so remove the second links.

 Done Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

• I feel that the majority of the information in the "Satellite images" subsection would be better placed in the "Russian response" section, where it could be used to refute Russian claims.
• The "Geographic distribution" subsection is unnecessary.

 Not done – Previous two points not yet addressed. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:13, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done – Although "Satellite images" text has yet to be properly integrated into its new section. Dhtwiki (talk) 09:50, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Reported death count

• This section is ambiguous about whether it refers to the deaths in the Bucha region or in Bucha town only. It would be better to specify the scope of the article and the section. Is the article focused on the massacre that occurred in the town of Bucha, or does it also cover the killings that took place in the surrounding area?

 Done – I've rearranged the section to better distinguish purely urban from regional death tolls. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:33, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Russian units involved

• Again, this section has structural issues. After reading the entire section, it is still unclear to me which units were responsible for the massacre. Many different units are mentioned, each sourced from different references. It would be better to organize the information into one or two paragraphs, rather than presenting each source separately.
• Briefly introduce Vladimir Putin (e.g., "Russian President Vladimir Putin").

 Done – Rearranged section to better consolidate mentions of Russian units and separating such mentions from Ukrainian intentions and foreign intelligence activity. I did not see where mention of Putin was necessary. Dhtwiki (talk) 08:57, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Investigations

• into events in Bucha -> "into the events in Bucha" since we're referring to specific events.
• with the area treated as a crime scene - Do we know how large this area was? As in, did it cover the entirety of Bucha or only places where bodies were found?

 Done – I have removed text in question, as it's not supported by proximate citation. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Reactions

• Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba - You've already introduced Kuleba earlier. Simply "Kuleba" or "Dmytro Kuleba" is enough here.
• Ditto for Putin.
• Wikilink and briefly introduce Zelenskyy since this appears to be the first time we're mentioning him.
• to show reporters and the world the reported atrocities in Bucha. - There's some editoralising here. Did Zelenskyy say he visited the area with reporters to "show them and the world the atrocities in Bucha"?
• Russian forces used tanks to crush Ukrainian civilians in cars - This should also be in quotes.
• Michel is the president of the European Council, not EU Council. Also link, European Council.
• Link NATO.
• There is no need to link the UN Security Council here since it has already been linked earlier in the article. Although it is allowed to duplicate the link in each section, since the UNSC was mentioned earlier in this section without being linked, there is no need to link it where it is currently linked.
• President Zelenskyy - Simply using "Zelenskyy" is sufficient. This applies to all instances of "President Zelenskyy" in the article, except for the first mention of Zelenskyy.
• Wikilink European Commission.
• orchestrated by British operatives in order to introduce new sanctions against Russia - This should be a quote.
• Briefly introduce Josep Borrell.

 Done – Have made changes accordingly, although I wasn't able to confirm "Russian forces..." and "orchestrated..." quotes. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Russian response and denial

• Give a brief description of Bellingcat.
• No need to introduce Putin and Lukashenko again.
• Merge the paragraphs about Nebenzya.
• Sergei Klokov, a driver for Moscow's police headquarters, who is originally from Bucha, was arrested after he told colleagues what he had heard from his father and Ukrainian family friends about the Russian invasion. Among Klokov's alleged crimes was saying that Russian soldiers were killing Ukrainian civilians. - This doesn't explicitly mention Bucha, so I'd remove it.

 Done – Have made changes according to these comments. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

References

• Spot-checked the following references: #1, 11, 26, 42, 50, 52, 76, 82, 92, 112, 119, 143, 187b
  • Reference #26 does not mention "fake news".
• The references are reliable, except for reference #160 of Telesur. However, since it is used as a primary source, it can be given a pass.

 Done – I've changed the wording supported by ref. #26, to "staged performance". Dhtwiki (talk) 05:16, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

General comments

• I will try to review the rest tomorrow. I apologise for the delay. — Golden ^talk 19:06, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
• Images are relevant and all are free except commons:File:Bucha civilians massacred by Russian soldiers, c. April 2022 - 01.jpg, which currently seems to be undergoing a deletion discussion.
• Earwig's detector gives 40% but it's mostly quotes, so that's a pass.
• Overall, I believe the article is in good shape, but it requires some work, particularly in its structure, to become a GA. I apologise again for reviewing this late and look forward to seeing your changes. — Golden ^talk 22:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

  @Dhtwiki or TimothyBlue: It's been a week since the last reply here. Would you like an extension to thoroughly review all the points? — Golden ^talk 20:50, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

  An extension is evidently necessary, if this is to progress in this round. I had been planning to do some more editing, but I'm also copy-editing other articles. Some of what you pointed out seems a matter of merely combining paragraphs and making other mechanistic changes. However, some changes may require the subject-matter editor(s) to clarify the text, using references. I can do only so much as copy editor. So, we should see more of the nominator, and possibly other editors, in doing this. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

  That's fine. I'll extend the deadline by two weeks to allow either you or TimothyBlue to make the necessary changes. — Golden ^talk 08:37, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

  I've addressed all the points that I can. Dhtwiki (talk) 05:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

  I had completely forgotten about this review - I am very sorry. Thank you, Dhtwiki: your edits have been very helpful. I believe the article now meets all the GA criteria. Congratulations! — Golden ^talk 20:30, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.