Talk:Bull riding

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Shouldn't there be something in this article about what makes the bull jump? Ortolan88

Flank straps and "why bull riding?"

The article should include at least a mention of the flank strap pulled at the time the chute is opened (as mentioned above.)

I understand that the events of the rodeo are contests based on the skills required in the various daily functions of the cowboy. When in the pursuit of his daily functions does a cowboy ride a wild bull? Cowboys are usually horsemen who manage the process of raising, managing, and transporting cattle. To the best of my knowledge, cowboys don't ride cows. This event in particular stands out a one specifically developed to show the courage and tenacity of the rider at the expense of the animal in question. I'd appreciate hearing any opinions on either side of this issue discussed here.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.1.18.14 (talk • contribs) 21:12, June 13, 2004.

In my mind, a cowboy does not have to only be skilled with horses. Bull riding is a sport that takes courage and skill, and if you haven't noticed, bulls are usually not the ones hurt!!!!

In my opinion, you sound like a supporter of PETA I am also a supporter of PETA as in people eating tasty animals.

Um, dude, the comment was made in 2004. We've fixed this stuff a long time ago. Also, WP asks that we assume good faith and not have random attacks on other people. (I think I'd better create an archive for this page). Montanabw^(talk) 01:49, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

why they jump

There is really no outside reason as to why rodeo bulls jump. It is either in their personality or it is not. Yes, the flank strap does provide some irritation, but that's all. It is not tied to any extrimities. It is tied above the hips. Some rodeos will allow the use of a cattle prod to get the bulls moving if they don't start by themselves. But all of that is just addition to the natural kick of the bull. There are bulls that are tested and don't jump or kick. They don't get used in professional rodeo. Some practice rodeos may use them for people who are just starting, but nothing more. They jump because the rope tied in front of their legs

Bulls buck because they are bred that way. If you look into the genetics of these athletes, the breeder's take the ones that do perform, and use them to breed offspring that perform the same. It is a well thought out process and there is a system in place to track and monitor these animals. That system is the ABBI and NBBA. The flank strap alone does not cause the animal to buck. If the animal does not have it in its blood, it is not going to perform no matter what you put on its flank.

how big is adult bull? in feet(lenght) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.209.239.152 (talk) 02:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Bucking vs. spinning

I'm very ignorant when it comes to the nuts and bolts of how a bull rider and bull are scored, but from the events that I've watched, it seems to me that, in general, riders who successfully ride bulls that do a lot of spinning around and not very much hard bucking get scored higher than riders that successfully ride bulls that have a lot of bucks and kicks and not much consistent spinning. The rider that won the event that ran on the night of 7/5 on Vs. is a prime example of what I'm getting at. Is there a reason for this? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:10, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Spinning is a lot harder to stay on than bucking, basically. Combining the two is the toughest, sometimes you see a roll of the hindquarters sideways, they call that "sunfishing," also very difficult. Straightforward bucking isn't nearly as hard to stay with, it's just a faster version of a leaping gait. Not that any of it is easy on a bull! Montanabw^(talk) 05:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Interesting...I'll keep that in mind next time I watch a riding event. Thanks! Willbyr (talk | contribs) 12:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

It's all the laws of physics, my friend! (grin) Montanabw^(talk) 04:00, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

what is the highest bull riding score ever given, when was it given? what divison of the rodo circuit ? and who was the rider? what year was this ride in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.113.212.40 (talk) 18:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Globalize

This article is too narrow for the title - an article on bull iding should cover all traditions of bull riding sports such as Latin American Jaripeo and historical old world bull riding sports. Or it should be moved to a more fitting title - e.g. American bull riding.·Maunus·ƛ· 02:16, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Then there needs to be articles titled jaripeo and such. We've "been there, done that" on various rodeo articles. I have no problem with doing articles about similar events in other nations, but we've had this debate before at other articles -- rodeo, cowboy, etc. (There was a vicious debate over this at rodeo, which resulted in the uncovering and banning of a major sockpuppet and the restoration of several content forks back into the original article.) "Bull riding" is a term of art referencing a particular sport. If there are other things called (in their own nation) "bull riding" (or literally translated as such), then we can do a disambiguation page or a cross-link, or something. In the meantime, there is no need to add "American" to this title (particularly as there is a similar form in Australia) in absence that there actually IS something out there to disambiguate. I think the Australian editors should add Aussie rules to this article, and the PRCA and NIRA rules should go in too, as it is a little focused on just PBR, but it's not a globalization issue, exactly. I'd be glad to see what else is out there, but title clutter for its own sake is just a waste of time. Montanabw^(talk) 21:28, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

It may be the case that Americans consider to have a patent on the term "bull riding" but this is not just an American encyclopedia. There are other kinds of bull riding that are also referred to with that same term as well and the article needs to reflect that, or somehow direct the reader to where he can find general information about all kinds of bull riding. It needs the globalize tag untill this issue has been solved - Don't just remove the tag because you don't think it is an issue - that is not how we work here. ·Maunus·ƛ· 00:40, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

First, your current edit was a helpful improvement on the article, so thank you. (And thank you for not reverting over a tag. I am grateful you chose to help fix the issues you had concerns over) But I've fought -- and won-- this "globalization" non-issue on multiple other cowboy and rodeo articles over the past several years and have no interest in fighting it again. I'm all for accuracy. I'm not for content forking. (We had this with rodeo versus charreada for example. Two different, yet related things, two different articles) So if you really think "bull riding" as a term is US-Centric, I will ask for some serious proof: please name ONE other sport actually called "bull riding." Point out articles on "old world bull riding sports" Then we can discuss. I realize that in a case such as football, where two different sports have the same name in English (referencing "soccer" and "gridiron") there is an argument. But I don't see a parallel situation here. Montanabw^(talk) 05:58, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The question of mentioning another sport called Bull riding misses the point - the point is whether the phrase "Bull riding" is also commonly used by lay readers to refer to non-American bull riding. I think it does - I came to this article because I was looking for general information about the history and international cultural practices that involved of riding bulls. This is the kind of issue where there is a technical usage that is specific and a lay usage that is more broad - in these cases we need to be helpful to the readers and steer them towards the topics they might be looking for. If "Bull riding" does indeed most commonly refer to the american tradition - I suspect you are right that it does - then we need to guide readers to the locations where they can find information about other usages - e.g. by a hatnote, by a disambiguatiopn page if such a thing is neccesarry, or by including links to the relvant articles in the text of the article (like we do with Jaripeo and Charreada now). I think the current solution works, all though additional links might become necessary if we get an article about the world history of bull riding games. I appreciate your brushup on the stuff I wrote.·Maunus·ƛ· 18:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree that we have a stable solution for now, the additional history was a good addition, I appreciate your finding the material. I know that people do occasionally ride oxen as work animals, but they are usually steers -- castrated. Riding bulls for the sake of riding may actually not be something where much will be found -- The Minoans did a sort of acrobatic thing, leaping over the horns, using the body of the animal sort of like a gymnast's pommel horse or something. The Spaniards were wise enough to realize that bullfighting to prove machismo might actually be safer than trying to ride them, it took the zany people of north America (Hispanic and Anglo) to cook up something as death-defyingly, Dawrin-award-self-nominating as actually getting on top of one on purpose and trying to stay there. (LOL) But if you do find something else that was original and not derivative, feel free to note it here and maybe add more stuff. Montanabw^(talk) 22:33, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Adding content

The following content was proposed for this article, and much of it is probably suitable if we can add sources and do some copyediting: Montanabw^(talk) 05:36, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

---

The proper care and treatment of bucking bulls is very important in being able to maintain the health, care, quality and performance of the bucking athlete. Areas that have been researched are: beneficial and healthy ways in treating the bulls, the safety of the bulls, and rules and regulations that are required to maintain the quality treatment for the bucking bulls, also chiropractic care and treatment is also readily available to help the bulls compete and exceed their top performance. These are many things that involve the care and treatment of these bucking animals.

the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), every bulls needs to receive about 20 pounds of alfalfa hay, as well as a high performance mix blend feed, which is a high protein and in which it helps to keep their endurance up. The high performance mix blend feeds contain many of vitamins and minerals to keep the bulls healthy .

Reverts

Please don't put things that are linked in the article into the see also section. It's supposed to be used for things that don't fit in with the text, but are related. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 21:11, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

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Is the article sexist?

Sections of this article suggest very strongly that only males ride bulls. Is this true? DrChrissy ^(talk) 23:18, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Probably 99% or more of bull riders are men. I've only ever heard of one woman bull rider; they're out there, but they're very rare. I don't think there's a rule against women riding bulls, but very few do outside of women-specific rodeos. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 23:34, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Do you think we need to edit the article to reflect this? You mention there are women specific rodeos - do women regularly ride bulls at these events? DrChrissy ^(talk) 23:40, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

We have to meet WP:RS to add material on women bull riders. There are a few all-women rodeos and a small number of women who might ride open competition, but indeed, the number is small. I'd say we need to dig. In the old days women were not allowed to compete against men, I'd have to see what the modern PRCA rules are, but I think WAF is correct. Let's d a bit of digging, perhaps? Montanabw^(talk) 06:55, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

I'm not thinking of adding a section on women riders, but of course that could be added. I noticed the article has several sentences such as "After he secures a good grip on the rope, the rider nods to signal he is ready." (my emphasis) which could easily be changed to "After they secure a good grip on the rope, the rider nods to signal they are ready." It's more of a neutrality thing.

I also think we might need to be a bit more global. I have looked at the Professional Bull Riders Association Australia [1] membership rules and as far as I can see, there is not even a section to state whether the applicant is male or female. see also [2][3]. DrChrissy ^(talk) 16:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, global is good, as long as we state that it originated in America! 😀 I don't know the actual PRCA or PBR rules, but I'm thinking women can ride bulls, it's just that very few do. I know there's a rodeo association called Women's Professional Rodeo Association (or something close) but whether they offer bull riding I don't know. White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 22:15, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi, these articles should help you. Yes, a woman has competed in the PRCA, Maggie Parker. And supposedly two who competed in lesser PBR events. I have her picture in Pinterest. Check these articles: http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/the-heart-to-overcome-professional-bull-rider-recovering-from-broken/article_5159c06f-e24f-5015-90f4-695734e2950f.html and https://bullridingmarketing.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/bullsisters/ Enjoy! Dawnleelynn (talk) 23:21, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I think there is good evidence with RS that there are female bull riders, albeit they are almost as rare as hen's teeth. The question is, should we change the content in the article to be more gender neutral? Is there a reason to keep it male oriented? DrChrissy ^(talk) 23:48, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

I think that where we can be gender-neutral by going to a plural ("bull riders use their..."), I'd quietly try to do so. I think that to say "he or she" constantly in this article will draw the attention of people who would make drama. While I personally like using gender-neutral language as much as possible, here we have both a sport with a very high male-to-female ratio, and a field of endeavor with a lot of "macho" on top of it, so we need to tread with some care. Montanabw^(talk) 06:42, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Changes done. DrChrissy ^(talk) 19:13, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

There wasn't that much to change, it looks like. Most of the referrals were to "the rider." Looks good to me but we'll see what the other two say. I noticed a wikilink that needed added while I read through, so I did that. Good stuff. In the future as the sport grows, we could see more women... the PBR is one of the fastest 10 growing sports in the country. :) Dawnleelynn (talk) 19:37, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree there were very few changes - I was rather surprised. With hindsight, I should probably have been bold and simply made the changes rather than creating this thread. DrChrissy ^(talk) 20:18, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

A very pleasant conversation- but we were both off-topic
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
DrChrissy, where are my manners? I'm Dawn and I've just been an editor for about 3 months now. montanabw has taken me under her wing to mentor me for a bit, which so very kind of her. And her colleague White Arabian Filly has also been an invaluable aid as well. I can see you and montanabw know each other. That says a lot about you right there. My area of focus here is bull riding, I especially love the bulls and I use many means to add to my old school and modern knowledge about them. What do you focus in? I can always use new friends here, I'm so new. :) Dawnleelynn (talk) 20:29, 20 December 2016 (UTC) Hi Dawn and welcome to wikipedia. Yes I know Montanabw very well on here. We might not always see eye-to-eye on everything (life would be so boring if we all did!) but we do get on very well. I also know WAF quite well since they joined relatively recently. I mainly write on animals, animal behaviour and animal welfare. In real life, I am an animal welfare scientist, so I try extremely hard to make sure any edits on animal welfare are backed up with robust scientific evidence. DrChrissy (talk) 20:47, 20 December 2016 (UTC) Thanks DrChrissy! That is so cool, what you do, really. I have been trying to help animal issues on social media for the last years. And I know the difference between animal welfare and animal rights. I am just working toward welfare, for my part. No extremism here. I have learned some about how the bulls are really treated in bull riding but not everyone agrees. And you can only verify or prove so much through the Internet anyway. But the stock contractors are opening up their operations to let people see the bulls more because of animal activism and I don't think that hurts anything. Hehe, I watched the 2016 PBR World Champion bull Bruiser get a spa treatment in a video a couple months ago. He loved it, you could see him arching his back and raising his head up and down. I bet you know about Temple Grandin too. I saw the movie. Oh well, no need to talk your ear off. Merry Christmas! Dawnleelynn (talk) 21:06, 20 December 2016 (UTC) DrChrissy (talk · contribs)Not sure if I offended you with last message or worried you. I'm not going to be doing any animal welfare editing now or in the future. I see you have had some harassment on your talk page. I will never be one of them. My last message was the extent of my conversation on it. All I will be doing is bull riding and maybe some other rodeo editing. And sure, maybe a stray other topic now and then. Sorry to see you get so much harassment... that's not right. Dawnleelynn (talk) 00:40, 21 December 2016 (UTC) @Dawnleelynn: You did not cause me any offence or worry whatsoever - don't give it a second thought. One of the principles here on WP is that editors do not "own" articles. They may act as stewards. You, and all other editors, are free to edit animal welfare pages according to our principles and guidelines whenever they wish. Regarding the above, I have met Temple Grandin several times at conferences around the world. I have not seen the film, so I do not know how accurately it portrays her, but in real life she has some very interesting ideas and a large amount of flamboyance to go with it. OK. We are both being a bit naughty here. This article talk page should be used for discussions about what goes in the article. The chit-chat we have been having should really be on your talk page or mine. With your permission, I will hat our discussion - that means placing it in a collapsible box to make it easier for other editors to navigate. DrChrissy (talk) 19:14, 21 December 2016 (UTC) DrChrissy (talk · contribs) Glad to hear all is well. You are right, of course, this does not belong on the article talk page. Of course you may hat our discussion. Thank you! Dawnleelynn (talk) 22:02, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

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I opted to use the current rules on the PRCA website rather than what is probably outdated rules on an archive site. dawnleelynn^(talk) 19:13, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

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Welfare

I've restored a section removed a while back about animal welfare. The removal comment said that it "wasn't a concern", which is clearly untrue, unless we're saying no care is taken about the animals' wellbeing? The section itself isn't great, it needs cites, but it belongs in the article. It was ridiculous that the article had a section about the riders' gloves, and nothing about the bull. Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 07:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)