Talk:Bully beef

Created from Corned beef

Particularly in the history section of Corned beef, there's likely some content that should be moved here. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:16, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Yes - here is the cut content (some duplication):

Corned beef remains popular in the United Kingdom and countries with British culinary traditions, and is commonly used in sandwiches or corned beef hash, or eaten with chips and pickles.

5.198.10.236 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:20, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Should this page be, Corned beef, United Kingdom?Halbared (talk) 12:05, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Was this split even discussed? It's preposterous. --Ef80 (talk) 20:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Recursive definition

Effectively we are being told in the first sentence that 'Corned beef' is made from corned beef.

I think 'refers to' is inappropriate; a word can refer to something, a meat product cannot.

'refers to the variety made from...' variety of what?

Whoever wrote this sentence meant something, but I can't tell what they meant. MrDemeanour (talk) 09:25, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Corned beef is salt-cured beef. Bully beef is a canned meet product made from ground corned beef. It's basically a beef version of Spam. The confusion arises from common British usage which calls both the chopped, canned version and the whole cuts "corned beef". oknazevad (talk) 18:18, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

The tinned version and the whole cuts are both sold in the US, and are both called "corned beef". 216.255.165.198 (talk) 21:49, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

The modern British term for cured brisket is "salt beef" and the canned product is "corned beef". It's Americans who use the same name for both. Alansplodge (talk) 11:57, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Nobody calls this stuff "bully beef"

I have never heard anyone call it bully beef in my life. It's called corned beef.

The other comments and the article appear to be saying that outside of the former British Empire that isn;t right. My Father 1915 - 1991, RAF in WW2, called it bully beef. Afterbrunel (talk) 12:19, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes "bully beef" is a bit historical. The article's title was an attempt to disentangle the two types of corned beef. They were originally both covered in the same article, which became a hopeless mess. I think we have to stick with it. Alansplodge (talk) 12:00, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that's a rational argument as part of the naming convention. The name of the product is Corned Beef and should be listed as such with a bracket to indicate it's geography. Eg, Corned Beef (Commonwealth).

There are no modern references to Bully Beef that I can find except war time references and it appears the name is still used somewhat in Jamaica (alongside corned beef).

According to WP:Article Titles wp:precision is one of the primary goal in naming convention. I do not believe "Bully Beef" or "corned Beef" are precise enough to clarify the difference. Bully Beef is an attempt at natural disambiguate but, the lack of references or use of Bully Beef makes it an "obscure" name.

Sadly, "outside the former British Empire" as mentioned doesn't leave much of the globe left. A better distinction would be commonwealth & USA. Jo Jc Jo^{Talk💬Edits📝} 23:59, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

The naming of the article is ridiculous. 'Bully beef' is British military slang from the 1940s. The civilian population has never used it. Try finding a can of 'bully beef' in a British shop in 2024 (or 1944 for that matter). 'All the world's America' strikes again - this bias is infuriating sometimes. --Ef80 (talk) 19:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

<edit> Apologies in advance as I'm not used to using talk pages and don't know if I'm properly contributing... but also agreed Bully Beef is not really used anywhere that I can think of and even internet searches (aside from turning up this wikipedia article itself) only turn up some usage in Jamaica. The cans around the world quite literally all say "Corned Beef" so the article just seems straight up inaccurate or misleading at best.

Also interesting that there isn't a single mention about South America and Brazil in particular which pretty much has cornered modern canned corn beef production. Seems like a pretty glaring omission. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maethlin (talk • contribs) 01:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Which Lord Paget?

The article has the following phrases in the opinion of Lord Paget old mahogany I've been unable to check the reference, which is an old newspaper. A search also turned up: https://franklin.library.upenn.edu/catalog/FRANKLIN_9954970423503681 Nor can I locate an explanation of old mahogany. Henry William Paget, 1st Marquess of Anglesey, died in 1854, but it is still possible the 1862 reference is quoting him. I'd like to nail down both of these phrases; does anyone have access? Humphrey Tribble (talk) 11:14, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Humphrey, the Lord Paget in question is Lord Clarence Paget, who was Secretary to the Admiralty in 1862. A better source is Hansard, the official record of the UK Parliament:

With regard to food, the House last year, at the suggestion of the Admiralty, allowed an establishment to be formed at Deptford where beef could be both killed and cured in our victualling yard. The operations there carried on have been productive of the greatest comfort and advantage to the seamen; but it is right to tell the House that its generosity to our navy has not been unattended with expense. The additional cost of providing first-rate beef is itself considerable, but depend upon it it is money well spent. The meat now purchased would be fit for any gentleman's table, and contrasts forcibly with the old "mahogany" we were used to in our young days. Both officers and men will now have very good corned beef. [1]

It's not entirely clear to me that he is talking about canned bully beef, but it seems more probable that he is talking about what we Britons now call "salt beef" and Americans still call corned beef, especially his reference to curing. Alansplodge (talk) 13:01, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree salt beef was the more likely subject. I deduce from the complete quotation that "mahogany" is either slang for or an allusion to poor quality meat. I have found a suitable photograph of a bull which could be used in lieu of Hereford's trademark. I am still reviewing the early use of preserved meat in canisters which goes back to the Napoleonic wars. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 16:15, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed, I think the Paget quote is a bit of a red herring. You may be interested in this article about Royal Navy salt beef in the 18th century, which agrees with what Paget is describing. Alansplodge (talk) 16:44, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

And HT's deduction is supported Doug butler (talk) 22:17, 27 August 2022 (UTC)