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Talk:CJ Stander

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Latest comment: 4 years ago by Number 57 in topic Requested move 21 July 2020
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Requested move 21 July 2020

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Latest comment: 4 years ago19 comments11 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Support arguments have demonstrated that the proposal meets the exception set out at MOS:INITIALS and opposers have failed to demonstrate any common usage of the full stops in his name Number 57 14:39, 1 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

C. J. Stander → CJ Stander – Although MOS:INITIALS states the normal correct way of initialising a name is capitalised followed by a full stop, it states that if the person has a different preferred style it can be used or a majority of sources use a certain variant. In this case the players social media uses CJ Stander and a large number of sources also use CJ Stander including primary sources from the clubs he has played for and secondary sources also. The page was previously listed under CJ Stander but moved without consensus. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:30, 21 July 2020 (UTC)Reply

Here is a selection of sources to illustrate my point: Some sources here: Primary and personal: Instagram, Irish Rugby, ESPN, [1], Rugby World Cup Profile, Munster Rugby, Secondary sources: Irish Times, SA Rugby Magazine, Irish Mirror, The 42, Limerick Post, Irish Examiner, Independent.ie Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Plenty of primary and secondary sources use CJ over C. J. so it's clearly not just personal/inside sources. Mentioning his social media account name preference was in reference to the person himself having a preferred style as mentioned in MOS:INITIALS. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:29, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
"Plenty of" is well short of the threshold specified in MOS:INITIALS, which is "an overwhelming majority of reliable sources". Dicklyon (talk) 02:58, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
As stated elsewhere I have not found one source that uses C. J. Stander, whereas all sources use CJ Stander suggesting "an overwhelming majority of reliable sources" does use the prospective name. Some sources here: Primary and personal: Instagram, Irish Rugby, ESPN, [2], Rugby World Cup Profile, Munster Rugby, Secondary sources: Irish Times, SA Rugby Magazine, Irish Mirror, The 42, Limerick Post, Irish Examiner, Independent.ie Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:37, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
You need to state which of those sources use nostops for all sportspeople (DJ Carey, AP McCoy, ...) or even all people (JK Rowling). Such sources should be discounted since "CJ" is just their house style, not indicative of something specific to Stander. jnestorius(talk) 10:11, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
Ah, I see the point you are trying to make now below, however I've not found one source that uses C. J.. While that may be house style as you suggest for not one single source to use C. J. suggests that CJ is the commonly used name. If there were sources that used C. J. then I would accept your point. As you have mentioned below, personally I see this case as similar to the CC Sabathia case, and even that case has exceptions that use C. C. whereas I cannot find any for Stander. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 10:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
  • Again, the house style allows for this change as MOS:INITIALS states:

An initial is capitalized and is followed by a full point (period) and a space (e.g. J. R. R. Tolkien), unless:

  • the person demonstrably has a different, consistently preferred style for his or her own name; and
  • an overwhelming majority of reliable sources use that variant style for that person.

In such a case, treat it as a self-published name change. Examples include k.d. lang, CC Sabathia, and CCH Pounder.

Stander clearly has a consistently preferred style for his name, and an overwhelming majority of reliable sources us the style JP for his name. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 12:20, 27 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
Comment I think there is a difference between a person/publication having a preference for no-dots for all personal initials (which is just a style variation we can ignore) as opposed to having a preference for their own/one specific person's initials (which is where the exception kicks in). It's not clear that distinction is established wrt Stander. OTOH, of the three examples quoted in the MOS:INITIALS snippet, CC Sabathia is the only one with a reference for no-dots preference. (Maybe the others had one but it got deleted after MOS:INITIALS was written?) jnestorius(talk) 13:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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