Talk:C/2016 R2 (PanSTARRS)
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Latest comment: 3 years ago by Paine Ellsworth in topic Requested move 22 August 2021
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Requested move 22 August 2021
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
 | It was proposed in this section that multiple pages be renamed and moved.
result: Links: current log • target log
This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}} |
- C/2016 R2 (PANSTARRS) → C/2016 R2
- C/2014 OG392 (PANSTARRS) → C/2014 OG392
- C/2015 ER61 (PANSTARRS) → C/2015 ER61
- C/2014 Q1 (PANSTARRS) → C/2014 Q1
- C/2018 F4 (PANSTARRS) → C/2018 F4
- 311P/PANSTARRS → 311P
– Unnecessary all-caps disambiguator not used for C/2011 L4, C/2014 G3, C/2021 O3, and three other articles in the List of Pan-STARRS discoveries. The telescope name is not consistently included in reliable sources and its formatting is inconsistent with the name of the telescope article at Pan-STARRS and is inconsistently formatted in sources when included. If we don't drop the telescope name, we should at least remove its all-caps styling. See also the ongoing discussion at Talk:C/2021 O3. — BarrelProof (talk) 18:38, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
- More than two weeks have passed by with no objection expressed in this RM. Time to close this as moved? — BarrelProof (talk) 17:54, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
- I disagree with the moves as comets are named after their discoverers. The question becomes how does Wikipedia want to show "PANSTARRS"? -- Kheider (talk) 07:48, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
- Well, the article about that is at the title Pan-STARRS, which matches the project's logo (see File:PanSTARRS4c 420.png), and "PANSTARRS" is not an initialism – the "Pan" is a shortening of the word "panoramic", and "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization ... only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia." Wikipedia especially avoids all-caps. I additionally note that among the cited sources that refer to these objects, the formatting is not always in all-caps (often using either PanSTARRS or Pan-STARRS). — BarrelProof (talk) 23:56, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
- oppose suggested moves but (with some hestitation) support proposer's secondary suggestion of moves to C/2016 R2 (Pan-STARRS), C/2014 OG392 (Pan-STARRS), C/2015 ER61 (Pan-STARRS), C/2014 Q1 (Pan-STARRS), C/2018 F4 (Pan-STARRS) and 311P/Pan-STARRS (existing pages are redirects). Current policy WP:COMETNAMES provides that the article name should use the IAU's current format. If the proposer disagrees, he should propose a change to the policy. Nevertheless, the current names are clearly contra MOS:ALLCAPS and while this has not been a very satisfactory way of addressing that, as the issue has been raised here, I think we must bring the names into line with the site-wide policy. Havelock Jones (talk) 12:30, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
- Move to C/2016 R2 (PanSTARRS) etc. with no hyphen, but with PAN changed to Pan. Judging by a Google search, usage seems to be roughly split between PANSTARRS and PanSTARRS, which means we defer to our preference not to use all-caps. However, I'm not seeing much usage for the hyphenated form Pan-STARRS at all, so I wouldn't support that. Regarding the issue of whether to include the parenthetical at all, I think that common usage does seem to favour including it, so it's not just a Wikipedia disambiguator but a part of the widely used name. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 15:20, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
- Partial support to move, following Amakuru's suggestion. Note that the survey is named "Pan-STARRS", while the comets are named "PANSTARRS" (no hyphen, and indeed officially all-caps). The hyphen is not part of the comet's name (the minority of sources that use it are in error); however, the parentheses are. They do not indicate a disambiguation, even if they might look like one. Using PanSTARRS instead of PANSTARRS seems fine. While the official names are capitalized, there will never be any ambiguity between lower and upper case names. Renerpho (talk) 06:05, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Additional comment The IAU uses hyphens in comet names for the sole purpose of indicating comets found by multiple discoverers (like 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova). A name Pan-STARRS would be used only if a comet was discovered by a collaboration of two observers Pan and STARRS. While we are under no obligation to follow IAU, I find this policy quite useful and sensible (the symbols in the name actually mean something!), and I see no reason to deviate. Renerpho (talk) 06:20, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
- Using "PanSTARRS" seems OK to me. But now I'm curious – what does IAU do when a discoverer has a surname that has a hyphen or a space in it? Lots of people have hyphenated surnames. Does SN 1572 have a longer-form name? (One of its discoverers was Robert Hanbury Brown, whose surname has a space in it, and Pilar Ruiz-Lapuente has also published work on that subject and has a hyphenated surname.) — BarrelProof (talk) 23:21, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- @BarrelProof: I'm not sure, but I believe IAU (more specifically: the CSBN) would contact the discoverer, and ask if they are fine with the hyphen being omitted (as in PanSTARRS, or RuizLapuente). If they are then the problem is solved. If they are not, then IAU may ask the discoverer to suggest an alternative. If no agreement is reached then comets can be published without names, with the possibility of making a decision at a later time (as happened with C/2017 O1 (ASASSN), a name to which the IAU originally objected). I believe a similar process happens when names have to be latinized, and the discoverer may be contacted about which latinization they prefer. This can be one of the reasons why some new comets take time to be officially announced. EDIT: Note that ASASSN is another example of an omitted hyphen (the survey is called ASAS-SN). For context, see here for the "outrage" that IAU's refusal to accept the naming proposal caused. Renerpho (talk) 00:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- I am also happy with "PanSTARRS" which I believe means we have reached consensus among all contributing editors, so perhaps the next editor to see this could close? Havelock Jones (talk) 23:17, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
- @BarrelProof: I'm not sure, but I believe IAU (more specifically: the CSBN) would contact the discoverer, and ask if they are fine with the hyphen being omitted (as in PanSTARRS, or RuizLapuente). If they are then the problem is solved. If they are not, then IAU may ask the discoverer to suggest an alternative. If no agreement is reached then comets can be published without names, with the possibility of making a decision at a later time (as happened with C/2017 O1 (ASASSN), a name to which the IAU originally objected). I believe a similar process happens when names have to be latinized, and the discoverer may be contacted about which latinization they prefer. This can be one of the reasons why some new comets take time to be officially announced. EDIT: Note that ASASSN is another example of an omitted hyphen (the survey is called ASAS-SN). For context, see here for the "outrage" that IAU's refusal to accept the naming proposal caused. Renerpho (talk) 00:31, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
- Using "PanSTARRS" seems OK to me. But now I'm curious – what does IAU do when a discoverer has a surname that has a hyphen or a space in it? Lots of people have hyphenated surnames. Does SN 1572 have a longer-form name? (One of its discoverers was Robert Hanbury Brown, whose surname has a space in it, and Pilar Ruiz-Lapuente has also published work on that subject and has a hyphenated surname.) — BarrelProof (talk) 23:21, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
- Additional comment The IAU uses hyphens in comet names for the sole purpose of indicating comets found by multiple discoverers (like 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova). A name Pan-STARRS would be used only if a comet was discovered by a collaboration of two observers Pan and STARRS. While we are under no obligation to follow IAU, I find this policy quite useful and sensible (the symbols in the name actually mean something!), and I see no reason to deviate. Renerpho (talk) 06:20, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.