Talk:Café society

Additions

What I am planning to add to this Wikipedia page is basic history of how it was started. Also wanted to add how media, films and celebrities has affected the Cafe society throughout the years. A movie was actually made about this topic this year and I want to add information on that. I also have a friend whose mother is going to Paris this month and have asked her to take photos of fashionable cafes and restaurants. I plan to look up certain places for her to photograph for me so I can add it onto my page. I also wanted to write about history of the founders of this society and all their little secrets and rituals that come with being in this society. I want to uncover as much of it as I can to really bring light to this topic. I find this topic so posh and interesting that in the 1920's high societies like this probably changed the game for "social fraternities". I want to also write about the aesthetic of the people who were part of this society and what were the credentials to be aloud in. I have a lot on my plate and this is just the tip of what I want to write about. The more I dig deep into this subject the more sub topics I will probably be adding onto this page. Sfern200 (talk) 23:16, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Sources for this topic: 1. Academic Journal on the film review of cafe society: New Yorker. 8/8/2016, Vol. 92 Issue 24, p14-14. 1/8p. 2. Book on this topic: "Cafe Society: The Wrong Place for the Right People," by Barney Josephson with Terry Trilling-Josephson. 3. Academic Article on a book review: Notes. Sep2010, Vol. 67 Issue 1, p96-98. 3p.(Bakan, Johnathon) 4. Academic article on the interplay of voyeurism & performance in a cafe: National Geographic Traveler. Oct2015, Vol. 32 Issue 6, p46-56. 11p (Burton, Tara Isabella) 5. Academic article on a establishment called Castle Cafe where people with dementia would meet once a month: Nursing Older People. Sep2007, Vol. 19 Issue 7, p20-21. 2p. 6. Academic journal on the Baileys cafe in London: Mental Health Practice. Sep2008, Vol. 12 Issue 1, p5-5. 1/6p. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sfern200 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 9 October 2016 (UTC) Here Professor are my sources that I found, you said on my sandbox that they were not there. I accidentally put them here! 19:27, 12 October 2016 (UTC) (talk)

I think this os a really cool topic in today's society, very relatable to college students, especially liked the comment about how these societies "changed the game for social fraternities". Eliash520 (talk) 02:22, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sfern200. Peer reviewers: Mfils018, Eliash520.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Personal essay, not encyclopedia article

This article reads like a personal essay, not an encyclopedia article. Artists are described as "really good" and "young inspiring."

"Jazz is well known fact to have been created by mainly African Americans about their soulful experiences throughout history" again sounds like opinion.

"Bibliography" is used when "biography" is meant.

The last sentence equates cafe society with speakeasies while the rest of the article suggests there was a substantial distinction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:3E47:CD00:F53A:8D4F:E80D:ACCB (talk) 00:17, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Those criticisms of the additions made this month are valid. The language in which the article is now written is unencyclopedic, and the grammar is abysmally poor. Furthermore, there seems to be some confusion between this article and the one on Josephson's Café Society - that is, the venue. This article should deal with the general category of people characterized as "café society" - not with the specific club which is covered in the other article. Additionally, there are basic and irritating formatting errors such as the inappropriate use of upper case initials, etc.. This article needs a very thorough trim and copy-edit, throughout - but I'm happy to wait and see if the author of the changes wishes to do that themselves first. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:37, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Cafe community

@Sfern200: The material you added about Cafe community is potentially very interesting, and the sources look good at first glance. However, given that this article is about an early twentieth century cultural movement, the addition is completely out of place here, so I've removed it.

If you wish to discuss this change, feel free to comment below; see WP:TALK for some guidelines on using Talk pages. (An initial ':' will indent one level; sign your entry with four tildes.)

But don't worry, nothing is "gone", everything is still available through the "History" tab. You can pick up all the text, and either create a new article around it, or find a new home for the material in another article whose topic is more closely aligned with it. Cordially, Mathglot (talk) 06:34, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Café society and jet set

The lead has contained something about the relation between "Café society" and "jet set" since March 2005. It has gone through various revisions, none of which were sourced. Sometimes it said that one culture evolved into the other, sometimes that only that one term evolved to the other (which is quite a different thing). None of these have ever offered a relevant attribution, so I've deleted this sentence from the Lead, as well as a dictionary def of "jet set" in the body with no connection or relevance to this article.

Here's a bit of the salient history, in case anyone wants to reinstate some version of it, with attribution of course:

The term "jet set" was introduced into the lead on 15 March 2005, in rev 12149955. Until 28 December 2005, the first paragraph of the Lead contained the following statement (without attribution)

Café society was replaced in the late 1950s by the Jet Set.

. This was changed (without attribution) in rev 33090825 22:06 28 December 2005 to:

In the late 1950s the term "Jet Set" became synonymous with "café society", but "café society" may still be used informally in some countries to describe people who habitually visit coffeehouses.

. This remained that way until rev 44437147 of 17:27, 18 March 2006 when it was changed (without attribution) to:

In the late 1950s the term "Jet Set" began to take the place of "café society", but "café society" may still be used informally in some countries to describe people who habitually visit coffeehouses and give their parties in restaurants rather than at home.

And it has remained that way ever since, until just now before I deleted it. The claim about "term replacement" wasn't even correct, as can be seen in this ngram.

To be honest, the original sentence, as well as all the changed versions, smack of good, ol'-fashioned, original research: it just sounded good, and someone pulled it out of a hat. Doesn't work that way. I've tagged the article {{Original research}}. Mathglot (talk) 08:09, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Globalize

The article needs expansion to cover a more global perspective. Right now, it has a U.S.-centric point of view. The Lead starts out nicely, mentioning Paris and London, but then doesn't go into any detail in the body about it. (And what about Berlin?) If anything, Paris was the center of this phenomenon, not the United States. Mathglot (talk) 08:04, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Unfocused

This article seems to be about more than one topic:

• a late 19th/early 20th century social and cultural phenomenon among the elite in NY and elsewhere
• two NY night clubs called "Cafe Society", and jazz singer Hazel Scott, who played there
• a 2007 book analyzing "the six personality types" of cafe patrons

The last part was the most obviously irrelevant and nothing to do with the topic of the article, and has been previously deleted. This still leaves the entire section on Barney Josephson and his two night clubs called "Cafe Society". And then there's the part on jazz singer Hazel Scott.

In my opinion, the Hazel Scott material should be removed, or merged into the Hazel Scott article if not a duplicate. Likewise, the material about the two nightclubs should be removed, or merged into the Café Society (not a typo; note the capital 'S') article. Mathglot (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

If anyone is interested in the material about Hazel, or the NY nightclubs, or anything else in the article outside the WP:LEAD please move the text to an appropriate article, or justify it here. Not sure how long to wait, but if there's no interest in discussing this in, say, a week or two, I plan to remove irrelevant material from this article, including whole sections where they are not relevant to the topic. Mathglot (talk) 03:24, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Large cut

I'm not opposed to the large cutback of the article by 216.80.31.191 (talk · contribs · count) but I've invited them at their talk page to explain more about it below. Mathglot (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

People

Wouldn't it be interesting to include a list of the famous artistic people who comprised cafe society in Paris and New York? Here are some suggestions: Paris: Gertrude Stein, Jean Cocteau, Hemingway, Picasso, Matisse, Joyce, Max Jacob, Leo Stein, Henry Miller, Coco Chanel, Massine, Diaghilev, Nijinsky, Stravinsky, Satie, Olga Picasso, Salmon, Alice B. Tolkas, Proust, Apollinaire, Clive Bell, Braque, Gris, Breton, Derain, Fitzgerald, Gershwin, Jean Hugo, Pickford, Fairbanks, Misia Sert, Debussy, Ravel, Monet. 98.244.137.86 (talk) 13:25, 26 July 2023 (UTC)kolef98.244.137.86 (talk) 13:25, 26 July 2023 (UTC)