Talk:Cajamarca–Cañaris Quechua

Article Name - North(ern) Peruvian Quechua or Cajamarca-Cañaris or Quechua II a

This is exactly Quechua II a, according to Alfredo Torero. "North Peruvian Quechua" is not used in literature. -- PhJ (talk) 20:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Cajamarca Quechua and Lambayeque Quechua are socially and linguistically distinct entities (be it "languages" or "dialects"). There is no reason to eliminate these articles, however, it is good to have an article on the greater group. -- PhJ (talk) 20:52, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

"North Peruvian Quechua" is used in the lit. That's where I got the name. It's also much more accessible than "Quechua IIa", and not everyone accepts IIA as a valid description. — kwami (talk) 21:42, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, "North Peruvian Quechua" is used in literature, but not exclusively in the sense of this article. The best reason for this is that there are more Quechua varieties in the north of Peru. Félix Quesada (1976) uses "Cajamarca-Cañaris" for his dictionary to subsume Cajamarca and Lambayeque (Incahuasi-Cañaris) Quechua (however, the words of that dictionary were taken from Cajamarca Quechua of Porcón and Chetilla, I cannot remember any typical Lambayeque words shown there).

Here is an example for the use of "North Peruvian Quechua":

Table 1.1 Quechua classification based on geography and typological features

Northern Quechua: The varieties spoken in Colombia, Ecuador, and in the Peruvian jungle along northern tributaries of the Amazon River

North Peruvian Quechua: The small and widely separated varieties spoken in Lambayeque, Cajamarca, Chachapoyas, and San Martín

Central Quechua: Twenty varieties spoken in central Peru, including SCQ

Southern Quechua: All varieties spoken south of central Peru

Daniel J. Hintz (2011), Crossing Aspectual Frontiers, p. 14.

Adelaar as well as Heggarty do use the term "North Peruvian Quechua" (Examples by Heggarty: Linguistics for Archaeologists: a Case-study in the Andes, 2008 and his Quechua website), but the distinction of this term in the sense of "Cajamarca-Cañaris" (excluding Jungle Quechua) from other Northern Peruvian dialects is uclear. "Cajamarca-Cañaris" desribes it much better and has been established by Quesada.

So hopefully nobody will have anything against moving the article to Cajamarca-Cañaris.

-- PhJ (talk) 16:39, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

"Northern Peruvian Quechua" is used twice in "The Languages of the Andes" by Willem Adelaar and Pieter Muysken, 2004 (p. 181, 182), but with the word "northern" in small letters, which means, as a description and not as a term (p. 182: "the northern Peruvian Quechua dialects of Cajamarca, Chachapoyas (Amazonas), Ferreñafe (Lambayeque) and Lamas (San Martín)"). -- PhJ (talk) 07:42, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that works.

Wanna take a crack as subclassifying Mixtec and Zapotec? — kwami (talk) 07:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Not today. ;-) -- PhJ (talk) 08:05, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh well. I'm not finding good sources on those – perhaps there aren't any?

Since we're calling the varieties Cajamarca and Lambayeque, wouldn't Cajamarca–Lambayeque Quechua be a more accessible title here? — kwami (talk) 08:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, actually "Inkawasi-Kañaris" and the alternative spelling "Incahuasi-Cañaris" are used at least as often (or almost as often) as "Lambayeque Quechua", whereas I've never seen "Cajamarca–Lambayeque Quechua" instead of "Cajamarca–Cañaris Quechua". I'd rather leave it as it is. -- PhJ (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Okay. — kwami (talk) 00:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)