Talk:Cala, South Africa

Requested move 28 November 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: procedural close, page moved back to Cala without prejudice to opening a new WP:RM discussion. Polyamorph (talk) 13:20, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

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Kala, Eastern Cape → Cala, Eastern Cape – "Kala" does not appear to have become the common name for the entity yet, with a number of media sources continuing to use "Cala" in references to the entity, and none identified that use "Kala", though this is complicated by the number of other things that "Kala" refers to. Page was originally moved on the 26th; I moved it back on the 27th, but my revert was itself reverted by the original mover half an hour later. I have requested that they abide by WP:RMUM and revert their repeated move, but they have declined to do so and so rather than engage in a page move war myself I believe it is better to make a request for the undiscussed move to be reverted here. BilledMammal (talk) 06:58, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Polyamorph (talk) 09:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

• Clearly not uncontroversial, better to discuss than engage in a move revert war. Polyamorph (talk) 09:21, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
• Restore stable title It is a little unclear why we are working backwards here, as this is a contested bold move. It is also a little unclear why this was converted to a discussion, as in my technical request I specified "discuss = no", as I did not want to immediately move to an RM if this request was deemed improper, but my post was edited to change that to "yes".

However, we are here now, and so I will present why I contested this bold move. Specifically, recent news results, such as these 1234 suggest that "Cala" is still in common usage, while a search for "Kala, Eastern Cape" turned up no results in reference to the location, although this was complicated by the large number of irrelevant results that were returned. Overall, this suggests to me that the WP:COMMONNAME remains Cala, and has not become Kala - at least not yet. BilledMammal (talk) 10:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

We are here because these move reverts are causing some moderate degree of disruption. It is more important to engage in discussion than it is to take unilateral action. Polyamorph (talk) 10:48, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

And you have the right to refuse my request to revert an undiscussed move, as well as the right to open a discussion on your own behalf. I find the first decision a little surprising, but you do have the right. What I find problematic is that you edited my comment in order to open a discussion on my behalf when I had requested this not be done.

However, it is done now, and rather than derail this RM I will continue any discussion about this on your talk page. BilledMammal (talk) 11:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

I edited a template, not your comment. I have no interest in discussing a non issue with you any further. Polyamorph (talk) 13:07, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

• Article restored to status quo ante and move protected for two weeks I have no opinion on the question at hand but Requested Moves often get in a mess when they are trying to revert unilateral moves. Timrollpickering (talk) 12:31, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

• Thank you User:Timrollpickering. If you don't object, I will now withdraw this RM, as it is currently listed on the RM page as "Cala, Eastern Cape → Cala, Eastern Cape" which seems likely to cause confusion - and I also think it would be appropriate to allow those who want to move from the stable title to lead with their evidence and arguments, rather than having them buried at the bottom of these discussions. BilledMammal (talk) 12:41, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 31 December 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Cala, South Africa. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 19:44, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

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Cala, Eastern Cape → Kala, Eastern Cape – This name has been changed for over 17 years. Bhisho, Ngcobo, Dutywa, and Mthatha were all successfully moved to their new name. This article talks about how the name changes in the Eastern Cape are here to stay. There is no evidence that a grammatical correction made over 17 years ago is in any way controversial today. Desertambition (talk) 14:52, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. The nominator has presented no evidence that "Kala" is the new common name, while google news search results suggest it is not; searches for ""Cala" Eastern Cape" return several relevant results, while searches for ""Kala" Eastern Cape" return no relevant results. BilledMammal (talk) 15:12, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I have presented a plethora of evidence BilledMammal. Please elaborate on why this article is different than Bhisho, Ngcobo, Dutywa, and Mthatha who all had their name changed around the same time. The article also states that the name changes in Eastern Cape have broad support across the board. What is wrong with the article in your opinion? It's also important to note that search results are generally weak evidence according to WP:COMMONNAME. We should prioritize reliable English language sources like the one I have provided. A tiny town like Kala with just about 10,000 people and composed almost entirely of black Africans is not going to be notable enough for search results to be very useful anyways. Desertambition (talk) 23:28, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
    • Whether the official name has become the common name for other locations is not relevant to whether the official name has become the common name at this location. Further, your evidence is very weak; all it does is say that the government stands by the name changes, and doesn't mention "Kala" or "Cala" (to review, see this archive link; your URL no longer functions). Meanwhile, my evidence (while google search results tend to have issues, the same issues do not apply to google news search results) shows that reliable sources continue to call it "Cala", including ewn.co.za, the site that originally published the article you cite as your evidence. BilledMammal (talk) 02:53, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
      • BilledMammal After reviewing the sources, I was wrong to assume the Wikipedia listing was correct. In the original government announcement there is no mention of Cala's name being changed. I am withdrawing my request to move this page and have updated List of renamed places in South Africa accordingly. This is the only such place I saw listed that had no evidence of being changed. The other place names are listed in the linked document. Can another editor please close this request? Desertambition (talk) 04:39, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
        • I didn't think to question whether the official name had actually changed; thank you for looking into it. BilledMammal (talk) 04:45, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
• Comment According to consensus, the policy at WP:PLACEDAB has recently been updated, and the correct title would be either Cala, South Africa or Kala, South Africa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162 etc. (talk • contribs) 16:46, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

• Good point. Support to Cala, South Africa. BilledMammal (talk) 02:53, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

• Support Cala, South Africa per 162, Oppose Kala, Eastern Cape per BilledMammal. --Spekkios (talk) 02:13, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
  • We all agree the name should stay the same because this whole argument was based on a mistake in the first place. Can someone please close this move request? Desertambition (talk) 04:56, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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